Hi

I am despeately reaching out to a community that can give me some answers. Doctors are really too nervous to say anything clearly since it might be constitute "advice". So hoping you guys can help.

I suffer from Alopecia Universalis. Total hair loss. There is promising research being done with micro-current stimulation. Its a LONG way from being offered as treatment for Alopecia sufferers and as such there are no products or clear advice for us to reach for. But since it is available for the use on face, I am trying to ascertain how I can just go ahead with this independantly.

The paper I read was called "Micro-Current Stimulation Has Potential Effects of Hair Growth-Promotion on Human Hair Follicle-Derived Papilla Cells and Animal Model" by Donghyun Hwang et al. It indicates that the results were most effective at 50 μA. I have then looked at the available face Micro-Current Stimulation, but I cannot understand the different ways they talk about different level of intensity / voltage for these products. They most often say 10 Hz and 30 Hz; an article says these devices are "often less than one milliampere" , but then the device itself says say 900nA to 400µA.

I am sure you can understand my confusion. Could someone give me some help in understanding so I can help myself?

thank you

 

None of this is part of an electrical engineering curriculum and we would run the same risk that doctors are worried about if we gave you certain advice and you sustain an injury as a result. I would have no clue on how to advise you on these matters. I think you are on your own.

 

1 millampere (1 mA) is equal to 1000 µA and 1000000 nA. So 900 nA is 0.9 µA or 0.0009 mA, and 400 µA is 0.4 mA. Thus, there is no conflict with the claim that the devices are often less than one millampere.

So that addresses the intensity question.

As to whether you should just go ahead and try this independently, there is no one here that can possibly offer advice in that regard. But given that you don't know the difference between milli-, micro-, and nano-, are you really comfortable with assuming that you can undertake something like this independently without risking potentially serious consequences, especially when the experts in the field are still only at the basic research phase?

 

Electrical safety standards require a maximum current to earth of 750uA. Those who set the regulations have obviously determined that 750uA is "safe".

 

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: The information in this post does not assume that any manufacturer’s claims are accurate. When working with electricity it is very important to understand the inherent potential for harm. This includes the supply voltage (does it run from a battery that can’t harm you no matter what, or does it plug into the mains which can kill you if the safety circuits are absent or fail), the design of the circuitry, and the apparent robustness of the construction. It is critically important that these things be reviewed by a competent person if electricity will be applied to the body.

Welcome to AAC.

I certainly can’t give you medical advice, but I can tell you two things:

1. 400μA is a very, very tiny current and with that being the (putative) upper limit I would not be afraid to apply it to myself.

2. The current is interdependent on two other things: the voltage, and the resistance in the circuit. When it is needed, power supplies can be designed to be constant current (CC), or constant voltage (CV). A CC supplies varies the voltage so that the combination of it and the circuit’s resistance (measured in Ohms (Ω)) produces the specified current.

A CV supply holds the voltage constant which means the current will vary with resistance. Since the specification is a range of current, unless the output is adjustable for current it suggests this is a CV device, the current changing with the variable resistance of human skin.

The relationship among voltage (V, in volts), current (A, in amps), and resistance (R, in Ω) is described by Ohm’s Law:
\[ \mathsf{E=I\times R} \space \space \space or \space \space \space \mathsf{I={E \over R}} \space \space \space or \space \space \space \mathsf{R={E \over I}} \]
You can use this simple formula to determine whichever term is of interest.

While the danger of electricity lies in the current that flows through the body, it is the voltage and resistance that determines just how much current there will be. It is generally considered that up to 50V is “human safe” and it represents the upper limits of low voltage.

One more thing, the damage done by electric current is largely if not exclusively by heating and so a fourth factor, time, comes into play. A high current for a very short time can be tolerated by whatever is conducting it without a problem, but given the time to cause heating, it will cause damage.

This may be the relevance of the 10Hz and 30Hz numbers, depending on the context, since they are in the time domain.

Good luck with your research, I hope things work out well for you.

 

1. 400A is a very, very tiny current and with that being the (putative) upper limit I would not be afraid to apply it to myself.

You need to correct your very serious typo!

 

My concern is that someone that has no clue about electricity and electrical safety is going to start experimenting on themselves hoping that they don't somehow manage to do something that results in more than the current on some label flowing through their body in close proximity to their brain.

 

You need to correct your very serious typo!

The editor ate my μ!
Apparently it lets me type the one I want but the drops it. I will have to change the code point I use.

Thanks for spotting that—I will edit it!

EDIT: I am no Electroboom…

 

1. 400A is a very, very tiny current and with that being the (putative) upper limit I would not be afraid to apply it to myself.

You’ve lost a rather important prefix there!

 

The resistance over a few millimetres of skin is probably about 100kΩ.
It‘s therefore quite likely you will receive 90uA in the process of installing a 9V battery, as no-one takes any precautions to avoid touching the terminals of a PP3.

 

My concern is that someone that has no clue about electricity and electrical safety is going to start experimenting on themselves hoping that they don't somehow manage to do something that results in more than the current on some label flowing through their body in close proximity to their brain.

The safety of unknown, race to the bottom manufacturer’s devices would certainly worry me. I would want to empirically measure the output and inspect the circuits before using such a thing.

My post is assuming that the reported output is correct and makes no comment on whether it is.

 

The resistance over a few millimetres of skin is probably about 100kΩ.
It‘s therefore quite likely you will receive 90uA in the process of installing a 9V battery, as no-one takes any precautions to avoid touching the terminals of a PP3.

I do! I am very careful to keep my tongue far away from the terminals when handling the battery.

 

The safety of unknown, race to the bottom manufacturer’s devices would certainly worry me. I would want to empirically measure the output and inspect the circuits before using such a thing.

And I have vanishing little confidence that the TS possesses the knowledge and skills to do either of those things.

 

And I have vanishing little confidence that the TS possesses the knowledge and skills to do either of those things.

Yes, I agree—and in light of that, the implied disclaimer is probably insufficient so I’ll add an explicit one.

 

I do! I am very careful to keep my tongue far away from the terminals when handling the battery.

I’m a little puzzled as to how a PP3 could make accidental contact with the tongue during the process of installation.

 

And I have vanishing little confidence that the TS possesses the knowledge and skills to do either of those things.

Added:

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: The information in this post does not assume that any manufacturer’s claims are accurate. When working with electricity it is very important to understand the inherent potential for harm. This includes the supply voltage (does it run from a battery that can’t harm you no matter what, or does it plug into the mains which can kill you if the safety circuits are absent or fail), the design of the circuitry, and the apparent robustness of the construction. It is critically important that these things be reviewed by a competent person if electricity will be applied to the body.

 

I’m a little puzzled as to how a PP3 could make accidental contact with the tongue during the process of installation.

Some of those PP3 compartments are very hard to open…

 

Some of those PP3 compartments are very hard to open…

Two hands to hold the thing, a foot to pry, while you open the cover with your teeth? I have that problem all the time!

 

None of this is part of an electrical engineering curriculum and we would run the same risk that doctors are worried about if we gave you certain advice and you sustain an injury as a result. I would have no clue on how to advise you on these matters. I think you are on your own.

unhelpful

 

1 millampere (1 mA) is equal to 1000 µA and 1000000 nA. So 900 nA is 0.9 µA or 0.0009 mA, and 400 µA is 0.4 mA. Thus, there is no conflict with the claim that the devices are often less than one millampere.

So that addresses the intensity question.

As to whether you should just go ahead and try this independently, there is no one here that can possibly offer advice in that regard. But given that you don't know the difference between milli-, micro-, and nano-, are you really comfortable with assuming that you can undertake something like this independently without risking potentially serious consequences, especially when the experts in the field are still only at the basic research phase?

Thank you. this is indeed helpful. Of course I am not suggested anyone advises me on whether to do this or not, but I am appreciative that you have taken the time to explain this to me. thank you