Generation of rectangular EMP impulses 30V 100MHz

ian field

Joined Oct 27, 2012
6,536

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,045
I have question to you: what do you have against electromagnetic impulses? It's part of electronics working, and its a science
And an answer: There is no prohibition against EMP generation, but there are prohibitions against damaging people & property and jamming radio reception. This thread seems ok so far.
So you guys are saying that no one will be able to increase what is being discussed in this thread? Building on it for use in say a coil gun or EMP destructive device? Using these circuits as a base to build on?
 

Thread Starter

satcom

Joined Apr 1, 2015
65
Into what impedance do you intend to drive this 10J 30V pulse? Another way to ask is what will the width of the pulse be?
Here's new expected parameters: pulse energy approx 1 Joule with a rep rate up to 30 pps (with adjustable pulse rate control).
Charging voltage is over 5kv with a peak current about 1000 amps.(equal to a 5 megawatt pulse of power)
 
Last edited:

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,849
RE: DickCappels "hazard of shock"
I had long working with 50-100 MHz of 2-3 kV RF power sources .
First was about Ampere so I soon realized that I was ill educated about RF is running only by skin and never harms. It was making a sense like ant bite in the fingertips. Later I worked the same frequency with 2 kV 10 Amp sources. If just touch it for millisecond, finger get thermal bump of size the been, what is enormously painful and deep, and heals about month. And I know a man who worked with 1 MHz generator of 100 kW, he once forgot a screwdriver inside. Guess what he find after melted. And I have read an article of man who by the mistake put the hand into microwave owen for maximum tenth of second (2,2 kW 3kV 2400 MHz). He told after, he immediately felt with a whole body that specific 50 Hz vibrating sound so his reaction to jump out was flash-like fast (let run away asap if one of you feels something similar somewhere :) ). The pain started after many minutes, when source was far away. The hand was dried soon and amputated after 3 days. No method to save it at all.
And factually, any Dirac Delta is generating something quite similar only at larger area.

I know very exact that at Haifa Technion (=university lab) works one group researching devices and technologies for blow-up the underwater blasts (for geology needs) using the electric Dirac discharge. By the way, there are plenty of wildly interesting publications at their homepage - it are publicly available and at English, however when I was living at Haifa for 3 years they even denied to talk with me.... when I had a hope to help them with my knowledge of not so far themes in Latvia University.... Thus I suspect their work was NOT solely for pure sake of geology alone as they publicly pronounce. So, now I am back again to my birth-land and have only memories about that tropical, beautiful, but wars-inquisited land filled by Russians calling themselves proudly Russian speaking Hebrews.
ref1:
Phys Rev E Stat Nonlin Soft Matter Phys. 2004 Mar;69(3 Pt 2):036402. Epub 2004 Mar Simplified model of underwater electrical discharge.
Gurovich VTs1, Grinenko A, Krasik YE, Felsteiner J., Physics Department, Technion, 32000 Haifa, Israel.
ref2:

Characterization of Different Wire Configurations in Underwater Electrical Explosion

Veksler, D., Sayapin, A., Efimov, S., Krasik, Y.E.
 
Last edited:

ronsoy2

Joined Sep 25, 2013
71
You need a tuned circuit that resonates at 100 mhz. The coil for the tuned circuit should be large enough to compare to the area you want the pulse to saturate. So, for example, if your subject device is a box 4 inches on a side, you need a coil about 5-6 inches in diameter. It must be a high Q tuned circuit so make the coil out of say, 1/4 or 3/8 inch copper tubing. The resonating capacitor must be capable of taking at least 1000 volts so use a mica or ceramic capacitor with a 1000 volt rating. You can use online resonance calculators to get the values and number of turns. To get the pulse, you will need to use some fairly high voltage, at least 250 volts. The total power is minimal because of the low pulse rate but the charged capacitors can give a very nasty shock that can do nerve damage to your body so insulate everything carefully! (this project is not recommended for your first project in power electronics!) If you charge a .1 mfd capacitor to 250 volts you will have approximately 3 joules of stored energy. Discharging the capacitor into the tuned circuit will give you the EMP. You can use the online joule calculators to see what energy you can get with different capacitors and voltages. To discharge the capacitor into the tuned circuit you can use a power relay. At 250 volts and that low of a frequency most relays that are rated for a few hundred volts will work. A 555 oscillator circuit can be built to pulse the relay at the rate you need. (Google 555 pulse circuits to get some schematics.) Be sure to get someone experienced in power electronics to help you build this. Don't touch anything when the power is on!
 

Thread Starter

satcom

Joined Apr 1, 2015
65
You need a tuned circuit that resonates at 100 mhz
Choosing the right frequency is important part. 100 MHz was used in other similar project, so I just take it as is. Perhaps, it's not optimal.
On one side, frequency should ensure a good spread of electromagnetic energy. On the other hand, I don't need to achieve too much range. Ideally, I need a frequency that will match internal resonant frequency of the device. If consider device as inductor-capacitor network (or LC circuit), consisting of internal inductance and capacitance of the circuitry, the goal it make it resonate. Then the current in the tuned LC circuit will reach its maximum values, which is what I want to achieve. As I don't know the internal resonant frequency, is it even possible to approximate it theoretically?
 
Last edited:

DickCappels

Joined Aug 21, 2008
10,187
You might run into trouble if you use much power at 100 MHz since it is in the FM radio band.

Do you think you can steer your project to an Industrial, Scientific, and Medical (ISM) frequency. Your type of use is that for which the ISM allocations were intended.

There is an ISM band centered on 40.68 MHz which is the nearest band going down in frequency. Going up in frequency from 100 MHz, the next band is centered on 433.92 MHz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band
 

RichardO

Joined May 4, 2013
2,270
You might run into trouble if you use much power at 100 MHz since it is in the FM radio band.

Do you think you can steer your project to an Industrial, Scientific, and Medical (ISM) frequency. Your type of use is that for which the ISM allocations were intended.

There is an ISM band centered on 40.68 MHz which is the nearest band going down in frequency. Going up in frequency from 100 MHz, the next band is centered on 433.92 MHz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band
And put your circuit in a very tightly sheilded enclosure. :D
 

Thread Starter

satcom

Joined Apr 1, 2015
65
You might run into trouble if you use much power at 100 MHz since it is in the FM radio band.

Do you think you can steer your project to an Industrial, Scientific, and Medical (ISM) frequency. Your type of use is that for which the ISM allocations were intended.

There is an ISM band centered on 40.68 MHz which is the nearest band going down in frequency. Going up in frequency from 100 MHz, the next band is centered on 433.92 MHz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band
I shouldn't affect FM radios and ISM devices, it's not a jammer, no continuous emission, but a very short impulse and directional emission, close to object.
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,849
RE:""I shouldn't affect FM radios and ISM devices, it's not a jammer, no continuous emission,""
If so, I may give a small hint - look for inert gas filled tiratrons available. Those one of TGi series what on my table is capable to stand up to 5000 A and 30 000V up to the 450 MHz, yet it demands a water cooling and size is not well SMD, but sooner the size of middle sized dog.
 

col_panek

Joined Oct 30, 2015
13
I've used triggered spark gaps, thyratrons, and SCRs to switch pulse forming networks. It all depends on the speed and voltage you need. The spark gap produced about 400,000 volts, as I recall, to power a traveling wave tube. It was kind of large. The larger thyratrons were 3 feet tall and put out a couple of megawatts peak.

I've also made frozen wave generators which are basically spark gaps that fire tuned circuits like tanks or antennas. Cheap, effective, but rather noisy.
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,849
Yeeeap, but then why to not use the method I told in one of my first mails here, those from picosecond laser techniques. Just take a spark-gap, say 10 cm long and 1 cm wide in widest place and 5 mm in narrowest place, from pure water-cooled copper in inert gas quartz tube. That means the gap has cone-like variating narrowness.So, now put the gigh Voltage on, and adjust the gaps let the voltage NOT beat-through the gap. Logically the current source is ultra-high frequency non-inductive high voltage capacitor or due capacitance. Then organize the small electrodes what creates the tiny spark along those electrodes of many times larger voltage, but tiny amperage. The radiofrequency plasma is even preferred. That will provide the steramer, or channel where the larger current will run. As soon You make a RF spark, the system ignites and Your large current produce an effect. Then charge the system up again (our demanded very long time to charge up to 50 kV the 100 uF capacitor) and You are ready for one more shot. The main electrodes erodes of course, but depending on cooling strength it happens relatively slowly.
 
Top