Thank you for the detailed response. I will deal with each of those areas and feedback in due course.

One more step that might improve things: connect a large(ish) electrolytic capacitor, 100 μF or so, directly across the power input terminals on your board. This could help insure against noise, oscillations and other oddball behavior in your circuit.

 

This is an interesting query and certainly has attracted a lot of attention, and a lot of comments from the clueless. Only a method that does not involve any contact would be very efficient, and so you are limited to magnetic coupling.

Now the clueless respond. Have you every heard of something called "magnetic dampening"? Or a similar condition called "eddy currents"?
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/physics/chapter/23-4-eddy-currents-and-magnetic-damping/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_damping

 

Now the clueless respond. Have you every heard of something called "magnetic dampening"? Or a similar condition called "eddy currents"?
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/physics/chapter/23-4-eddy-currents-and-magnetic-damping/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_damping

Sounds like a manifestation of Lenz’s Law as, for example, when a magnet is pulled back and forth inside a solenoid.

To he eddy current dampening is a standard A-Level experiment.

A practical experiment will reveal.

 

a lot of comments from the clueless.

Offense taken.

a method that does not involve any contact would be very efficient, and so you are limited to magnetic coupling.

Magnetic coupling is a form of contact. Drop a small magnet down the length of a copper tube. It can take several seconds to reach the other end. I'd say that's a whole lot of dampening.

Look! I never say I know everything. Rather, I admit freely and with some measure of 'Pride in recognition of my limitations' when I don't know something. When I'm guessing. When I suggest a possible alternative that may or may not have bearing on any given project. [edit] removed a comment that could get me censured. [end edit]

I'd just like to feel a little more welcome here. Even in my own ignorance, it would be nice to be tolerated. If anyone can't tolerate my comments then please select the ignore button and you'll never have to see any content by me again.

 

I'd just like to feel a little more welcome here. Even in my own ignorance, it would be nice to be tolerated. If anyone can't tolerate my comments then please select the ignore button and you'll never have to see any content by me again.

I thought he was referencing me. He probably did his usual, read one or two of the last posts and then talk of how no one but him is an expert.

 

Sounds like a manifestation of Lenz’s Law as, for example, when a magnet is pulled back and forth inside a solenoid.

To he eddy current dampening is a standard A-Level experiment.

A practical experiment will reveal.

Didn't you say earlier you taught physics? Why do you think any of this "experiment" is going to work? There are "laws" of physics that have been used for a long time, and reexamined many times to the conclusion that they are true. What do you think is going to be different now?

 

Didn't you say earlier you taught physics? Why do you think any of this "experiment" is going to work? There are "laws" of physics that have been used for a long time, and reexamined many times to the conclusion that they are true. What do you think is going to be different now?

I’m not expecting to find anything different . I’m finding out practically speaking what is the best efficiency in extracting energy from a moving beam driven by a pendulum. What’s so odd about that?

 

The one source of energy that is fairly consistent is wave action on large bodies of water. And recovery does not require turbines on immense towers, A coil float bobbing up and down over a magnet post would be about as simple as could be. Or let the magnet bob on a coli post, whichever is lighter should be the moving item.

 

The one source of energy that is fairly consistent is wave action on large bodies of water. And recovery does not require turbines on immense towers, A coil float bobbing up and down over a magnet post would be about as simple as could be. Or let the magnet bob on a coli post, whichever is lighter should be the moving item.

I probably need to see what sort of twisting moment I get around the pivot to figure out the best option. The counterweight is only moving about 5mm vertically but in lifting the approx 1.5kg mass it gains GPE at a rate of 184mW as mentioned. So whatever energy extraction is used it needs to suit a short stroke at about 2.5Hz but with a significant force.

 

I’m not expecting to find anything different . I’m finding out practically speaking what is the best efficiency in extracting energy from a moving beam driven by a pendulum. What’s so odd about that?

It just seems odd that someone that knows physics(supposedly) doesn't understand all of the things that effect the movement of the beam. And the simple fact that you can't get more energy out than you put in. Just spending a little time on the gentlemans link from a few days ago will show that. If your thinking of noise, the tapping sound he gets as energy harvesting I guess that's something but personally work or power isn't just a tapping sound to me.

But now that mrbill is on the case, it will get interesting from this point.

 

It just seems odd that someone that knows physics(supposedly) doesn't understand all of the things that effect the movement of the beam. And the simple fact that you can't get more energy out than you put in. Just spending a little time on the gentlemans link from a few days ago will show that. If your thinking of noise, the tapping sound he gets as energy harvesting I guess that's something but personally work or power isn't just a tapping sound to me.

But now that mrbill is on the case, it will get interesting from this point.

What is this obsession with this idea of my trying to get more energy out than I put in? This has come from forum members not me.
I’m well aware of the Laws of Thermodynamics thanks.
If your looking to find somewhere to have a gripe at can I suggest you go and look elsewhere while some interesting and useful discussion continues here?

My post was a genuine enquiry into an electro mechanical query, not an attempt to overturn over 300 years of understanding. For reasons beyond me a few people have hijacked this post to express their misplaced frustration. If that’s the flavour of things I’ll just leave you to it.

 

A short stroke with a lot of force sounds very much like the drive for pumping some fluid. The force would need to be fairly constant because the pressure will rise very quickly in a fluid.
Magnetic generation works best with more speed. Piezo generation takes lots of force and very little motion. Thusa fluid pump should be effective. Store the energy in a hydraulic accumulator and use a constant flow device for the load. Powerful but not very exotic.

 

What is this obsession with this idea of my trying to get more energy out than I put in? This has come from forum members not me.
I’m well aware of the Laws of Thermodynamics thanks.
If your looking to find somewhere to have a gripe at can I suggest you go and look elsewhere while some interesting and useful discussion continues here?

My post was a genuine enquiry into an electro mechanical query, not an attempt to overturn over 300 years of understanding. For reasons beyond me a few people have hijacked this post to express their misplaced frustration. If that’s the flavour of things I’ll just leave you to it.

The answer to the question about something for nothing is because of all the many threads where some claim to do just that, or they think that they can do it. Thus individuals who do not fully understand your goal tend to think it is more of the same.
And in reality, your experiment and goal are rather unusual. That is not intended as a critical remark, just a statement of what is.

 

If your looking to find somewhere to have a gripe at can I suggest you go and look elsewhere while some interesting and useful discussion continues here?

So far there has been no item suggesting (to my understanding of things) that any energy is coming out of any put in. Work yes but but only that. There was talk of pump jacks earlier, but they are only sized for the weight of the oil being pumped on each stroke, no magic of any kind involved. The "work", experiments of
Veljko Milkovic are doing nothing useful. Just a different type of Newton's Cradle. Any application to harvest energy or do something just makes them stop faster.

 

So far there has been no item suggesting (to my understanding of things) that any energy is coming out of any put in. Work yes but but only that. There was talk of pump jacks earlier, but they are only sized for the weight of the oil being pumped on each stroke, no magic of any kind involved. The "work", experiments of
Veljko Milkovic are doing nothing useful. Just a different type of Newton's Cradle. Any application to harvest energy or do something just makes them stop faster.

My original query has almost disappeared amongst the many assumptions due the apparent similarity with some other posts in the past looking to show supra efficiencies.

I guess many will not wish to read through every post in a thread to get the full picture so to clarify things:

Device:
PSU - Timer Circuit - Motor - Pendulum - Balance Beam - Counterweight - ‘Energy Extraction System’

Why?
Covid Shielded - Bored - Curious - Idle Mecanno set . . . .

Progress:
Revised timer circuit and build attached.

Energy extraction:
There have been some excellent suggestions with magnetic or fluid based systems floating to the top. I wonder if Mecanno do little bi-directional pumps?

 

This setup in the photo is quite impressive indeed. It is far more sophisticated than I had anticipated. Now I am thinking that on this scale the available positive displacement pumps will mostly be found in medical and analysis equipment, made by suppliers to those industries. The most efficient pump would probably be a bellows type, since that would have much less friction, which is the major loss in positive displacement pumps.
One additional consideration is that this mechanical system will have a resonant frequency that will be the greatest amplitude of motion for a given energy input. At the same time, every bit of energy recovered as output will tend to dampen that resonant motion. That is all rather basic physics.
Probably using a small mirror and a small light source will provide the least intrusive means for observing the magnitude of the motion to adjust the drive frequency for the greatest amplitude of movement.

 

This setup in the photo is quite impressive indeed. It is far more sophisticated than I had anticipated. Now I am thinking that on this scale the available positive displacement pumps will mostly be found in medical and analysis equipment, made by suppliers to those industries. The most efficient pump would probably be a bellows type, since that would have much less friction, which is the major loss in positive displacement pumps.
One additional consideration is that this mechanical system will have a resonant frequency that will be the greatest amplitude of motion for a given energy input. At the same time, every bit of energy recovered as output will tend to dampen that resonant motion. That is all rather basic physics.
Probably using a small mirror and a small light source will provide the least intrusive means for observing the magnitude of the motion to adjust the drive frequency for the greatest amplitude of movement.

Some useful thoughts, thank you.

As, if and when I get any useful results I will post them here. It’s possible there may be some behaviours that need clarification. Makes it more interesting

 

At the same time, every bit of energy recovered as output will tend to dampen that resonant motion. That is all rather basic physics.

Some useful thoughts, thank you.

His is useful? And yet when I've been telling you the same thing you get your panties in a twist.

 

The difference is that you were suggesting I didn’t understand the basics of energy conservation and were trying to find fault with what I was doing. Misterbill and a few others didn’t and were offering constructive ideas. The undertone of your posts was very different. Maybe you hadn’t read every post in the thread but I can only respond to what you put out and not what might be in your head.

 

Since you're driving it with a motor you could use one of those power outlet meters at the motor, though I cannot attest to the accuracy and resolution of these things. When you run the pendulum unloaded it will tell you the losses in the system and when you run it loaded with a solenoid / pump / other it will tell you losses + energy extracted. A caveat is that under load dissipation in the pendulum due to losses will probably increase somewhat.