Interesting read. While my neighbor is a sweetheart she does have a problem with alcohol abuse. Following her last driving while intoxicated she pays a much higher rate for her automotive insurance than most of us do, she was also a threat to others around her. Insurance companies charge smokers a higher rate than non smokers and the list goes on. With that in mind I wonder how things play out if someone declines vaccination based on religious grounds? Not sure how that would play out in the US courts. What I am seeing is a heck of a division among people over this entire pandemic. The unvaccinated, much like a drunk driver pose a threat to those around them.

Ron

That's the root of the division.
Vaccine or not, the threat to others is the same. This attitude of us vs them exists in some people who have been vaccinated and believe that makes them invulnerable(it doesn't), and unable to spread the virus(it doesn't).

We don't yet know whether or not it reduces the risk of death when dealing with certain variants, time will tell, although early indicators suggest it will. Sometimes however we see what we want to see when looking at incomplete data sets.

 

Interesting read. While my neighbor is a sweetheart she does have a problem with alcohol abuse. Following her last driving while intoxicated she pays a much higher rate for her automotive insurance than most of us do, she was also a threat to others around her. Insurance companies charge smokers a higher rate than non smokers and the list goes on. With that in mind I wonder how things play out if someone declines vaccination based on religious grounds? Not sure how that would play out in the US courts. What I am seeing is a heck of a division among people over this entire pandemic. The unvaccinated, much like a drunk driver pose a threat to those around them.

Ron

IMHO, arguing religious grounds for certain personal decisions many times range from nonsense all the way up to criminal negligence. I remember a case quite a few years ago in which a baby was practically starved to death because their parents believed that the purest way to feed their newborn was by having him drink tea infusions (no milk, nor sugar added) and no other additional form of nourishment ... not even breastfeeding. After the poor child died, his parents argued religious grounds, and of course the judge didn't buy it and sent them to jail. A very sad story indeed.

While I do understand some people's fears and mistrust in a system that's often failed them, I also think that there should be a limit imposed to that sort of attitude. Especially when said people's claim to "personal rights" affect other's and my own.

 

That's the root of the division.
Vaccine or not, the threat to others is the same. This attitude of us vs them exists in some people who have been vaccinated and believe that makes them invulnerable(it doesn't), and unable to spread the virus(it doesn't).

We don't yet know whether or not it reduces the risk of death when dealing with certain variants, time will tell, although early indicators suggest it will. Sometimes however we see what we want to see when looking at incomplete data sets.

Oh absolutely. My vaccinated sister developed COVID. She went ahead and quarantined herself to her home for 10 days following her doctor's advice. So while vaccinated with both shots of Pfizer vaccine she still ended up with COVID. Like me she is retired making it easy to just stay home and cancel and plans. Tomorrow I have the super market in my plans and I will wear a mask even though vaccinated as I figure it helps those around me feel more comfortable. I like happy content people and besides when all this began my wife, who loves Amazon, ordered what must have been 500 mask.

Ron

 

IMHO, arguing religious grounds for certain personal decisions many times range from nonsense all the way up to criminal negligence. I remember a case quite a few years ago in which a baby was practically starved to death because their parents believed that the purest way to feed their newborn was by having him drink tea infusions (no milk, nor sugar added) and no other additional form of nourishment ... not even breastfeeding. After the poor child died, his parents argued religious grounds, and of course the judge didn't buy it and sent them to jail. A very sad story indeed.

While I do understand some people's fears and mistrust in a system that's often failed them, I also think that there should be a limit imposed to that sort of attitude. Especially when said people's claim to "personal rights" affect other's and my own.

Exactly!

Ron

 

So far 'fear' has been the best motivator for the truly vaccine hesitant. Fear of the vaccine vs fear of sickness and death. Mother Nature has a bucket load of 'fear' left to dump on our heads so I expect that most of the 'fearful' hesitant will be on the vaccine train before too long.

There's nothing to fear but fear -- and the virus


Sure, you're not really superman but it reduces the chances of getting two in the brain bucket.

 

 

I guess fear can be a tremendous weapon. During my life, like many others, there were things I feared. Funny but I never feared this virus. When the first vaccines came available my wife and I saw no reason not to get vaccinated. We really feared neither the vaccine or the virus. While there were horror stories abound about the ill effects of the vaccine we figured if one in six million or so, give or take, suffered a side effect the odds were in our favor and we really could not think of a reason not to get vaccinated. Heck, we still get a routine flu shot every year. Not being anything close to medical types we simply take the advice of our primary healthcare doctor. If Dr. Mark thinks it's a good idea we follow his advice. My grandfather was a doctor and a heck of a good one having graduated medical school in 1907. When I did electrical work in his house, an old Brooklyn NY brownstone he and I had an agreement. He would leave electricity alone and I would not try surgery on friends or family.

My wife and I could not think of any reason not to get vaccinated. My neighbor actually convinced his wife that a vaccine shot was part of a tracking device. This is a guy who is never more than a few feet away from his cell phone. He always goes off on how he would need to be dead before anyone vaccinates him. I guess that makes sense because he runs the risk of being dead in which case even a tracking device or vaccine would be of no value. While I have to defend his right to not get vaccinated I will be short on pity if he gets sick and his daily life has him in contact with plenty of people.

Sadly depending on what we read about 57% of the US population is vaccinated. Here in Ohio where I happen to live we are about 50% but who knows how accurate those numbers really are. As I mentioned previously, you can lead a horse to water but... Pretty sure we all get that.

Ron

 

I keep hearing a lot of talk about "personal rights" here in the US there is no such thing as "personal rights" everyone has the exact same rights.

You can have...
Personal beliefs
Personal tastes
Personal style
etc...but no "personal rights"

In the US you have the right to do anything that is not illegal, and the last time I checked refusing the vaccine is not illegal, but that is not the exercise of a "personal right".

You do not have the right to starve a child regardless of your personal beliefs, and you cannot convert a personal belief into a personal right.

I have to say, when it comes to rights in this country the education system is a big FAIL...I mean we actually have people that believe the bill of rights is a list of your rights instead of a list of "protected" rights.

As far as making refusing the vaccine illegal...well that issue has been done to death, but I do believe it is a foolish move. (not to be confused with being a fool)

 

https://www.hhs.gov/civil-rights/for-individuals/faqs/what-are-civil-rights/101/index.html

What are civil rights?
Civil rights are personal rights guaranteed and protected by the U.S. Constitution and federal laws enacted by Congress, such as the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. Civil rights include protection from unlawful discrimination.

They are not immutable. Those rights are useless if we are all dead.

 

Yea, but people are using "personal rights" in a different context, and that context is what I was referring to in my post.

Just to clarify the context I was using…

Personal Rights as to assume a right that other people don’t have, or are different from the rights of others.

As in my example of starving a child based on “personal rights”.

 

I mean we actually have people that believe the bill of rights is a list of your rights instead of a list of "protected" rights.

Out of curiosity, if the bill of Rights, is a list protected rights, and I have not forfeit my protected rights by committing a crime, are those protected rights not my rights?

 

Yea, but people are using "personal rights" in a different context, and that context is what I was referring to in my post.

They are IMO using it in the proper context in the current level of health emergency for a isolated individual case as things could get a lot worse if the mortality of the virus increases but having a personal right (qualified right) is not the same as saying they have an absolute right not to be vaccinated under any and all conditions. They don't have an absolute right not to be vaccinated but the government also can't use any means necessary to force them to be vaccinated.

https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095344943

 

Out of curiosity, if the bill of Rights, is a list protected rights, and I have not forfeit my protected rights by committing a crime, are those protected rights not my rights?

Yes, of course they are, but they are not your only rights...which is the mistake some people make.

 

I have been exposed to the earlier virus of covid.family members died the ones I take it to the hospital I could not embrace when they took their last breath. The ones quaranteed with me.I witness their last breath. It does not matter ....once you are gone there is no coming back.

 

Given the threat level shown by the delta variant even for vaccinated people, I have decided to keep hiding at home. And still wear a mask when I have to go out. Which will be few and far between. Fortunately Amazon seems to be able to deliver most of my necessities. And I'm getting better at managing my money. To the folks who don't have the vaccine you are the breeding ground for the virus in every person it hits increases the chance it will mutate into something worse like the delta variant.

 

Given the threat level shown by the delta variant even for vaccinated people, I have decided to keep hiding at home. And still wear a mask when I have to go out. Which will be few and far between. Fortunately Amazon seems to be able to deliver most of my necessities. And I'm getting better at managing my money. To the folks who don't have the vaccine you are the breeding ground for the virus in every person it hits increases the chance it will mutate into something worse like the delta variant.

The light at the end of the tunnel is that eventually the mutations will follow the natural cycle of pandemic decline. It's much like solar fusion, as each step up the chain happens there is less and less excess energy left in the process until the infection rate falls back into the normal background range of virus infections. For the US we are most likely post-peak sickness and death due to vaccination during the delta cases wave.

The threat level for fully vaccinated people is low (in actual numbers, not some bogus rate bias error percentage) even with delta in the mix but it's a grave danger to the unvaccinated.

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...variant-for-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-people

• A new CDC reportTrusted Source shows that since July 26, there have been only 6,587 reports of breakthrough infections that resulted in hospitalization or death among 163 million fully vaccinated people — a percentage of 0.01 percent or less.

 

It is happening next week. In Canada, most people are fully vaccinated people and will be allowed to do almost anything but non-vaccinated people will be banned from almost everything.
In some countries there are so many non-vaccinated people that their hospitals are full and are not taking in any more Covid patients.

 

Hospitals are at capacity down here on Ga and N Fl coast now. Not sure what % were not Vaxed but likely most were not. Number of cases climbing again from the brief lull. Since dropping mask requirments, I expect it to continue climbing until something is done about it.

 

Fake Covid Vaccination Cards Are on the Rise (msn.com)

 

My dollar's worth,

If your in your in your 60's, the vaccine makes you around 20 times less likely to get CV19,
about the same risk as a teenager.

Insurance companies,
If you have had the vax , then you are less likely to need there money / claim
Premiums are based on likely need / risk , so to be commercial, if you have had the vax, you pay lower premiums.


To vax on not
like all of life , comes down to choice and belief,
When you cross a road , you use logic and science to work out when to ' not to cross.
If we applied this to vacines, then we would all vax ,
but we are not a logical specie,

If we were logical, we would not go out on a bender, and then try to cross a busy street ,
but we are not logical.

But

Just like the flu
were all going to get resistance to CV19 version thats around,
either by getting the current CV19 , or by a vax.

The problem is the more people that get it, and the longer they have it,
the more its going to spread and more chance of mutating,

So personally, I don't fancy my chances of fighting CV19 off, and I don't want to be responsible for spreading it any more than I can if I do get it, and I have friends in the health service who I'd rather not over load any more.

So I have been jabed,