Covid-Zero. What's the end game?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...amid-new-restrictions-just-176-new-cases.html

Anti-lockdown marches have erupted across Australia with tens of thousands of maskless protesters lining the streets of Melbourne and Sydney, amid fears the rallies could act as devastating Covid super-spreading events.

The protests are a response to harsh Covid lockdowns in New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia, with more than half the country's 25million people ordered to stay at home over an outbreak which began in Sydney.

 

Wow, here we are open for business again.

Really need to see what is new with the CORONA thing. My last read was that the D flavor was increasing. Most business seems to have returned to close to normal which is good to see. Then too inflation seems to have taken off. Glad we did the new garage addition before any of this began because with the cost of lumber the building would have been labeled "impossible dream". I guess there are consequences to shutting down an entire economy. So now we sit and wait to see how things play out.

Ron

 

In my area, only the unvaccinated need to wear masks in public. Fortunately, we have 100% vaccination according to my survey of shoppers at Costco and Home Depot.

 

Like it or not, this thing is here to stay. And we're going to have to learn how to live with it.... there's no way in hell the population in any western country will stand for a harsh shutdown again...

 

Covid-Zero. What's the end game?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...amid-new-restrictions-just-176-new-cases.html

Yeah, my heart goes out to those down under. A few years ago it was forest fires and now this.

Ron

 

In my area, only the unvaccinated need to wear masks in public. Fortunately, we have 100% vaccination according to my survey of shoppers at Costco and Home Depot.

The problem with this would be being able to distinguish less asking "papers please" just who is and is not actually vaccinated.

Ron

 

Like it or not, this thing is here to stay. And we're going to have to learn how to live with it.... there's no way in hell the population in any western country will stand for a harsh shutdown again...

Yes, there is a way that most countries will stand for a harsh shutdown. It’s a return to peak levels where the protesters are forced to accept the shutdowns.. because most of them have died or are in long- term care.

 

Wow, here we are open for business again.

Really need to see what is new with the CORONA thing. My last read was that the D flavor was increasing. Most business seems to have returned to close to normal which is good to see. Then too inflation seems to have taken off. Glad we did the new garage addition before any of this began because with the cost of lumber the building would have been labeled "impossible dream". I guess there are consequences to shutting down an entire economy. So now we sit and wait to see how things play out.

Ron

I just did the big loop 2 week vacation from Oregon to Nevada to San Diego and back up I-5 to Oregon. The entire country is open for business again and I just don't see a return to massive restrictions being possible again even with an uptick in cases from Delta or any possible variant with similar transmission properties. I don't want the unvaccinated need to wear masks in public or added exposure restrictions because IMO at this stage it's useless COVID-19 theater that doesn't solve the root problem of them being unvaccinated.

The majority of the fully-vaccinated should not be punished for uuvaccinated foolishness with lockdowns and restrictions. The quickest way out of the anti-vaxx case loads is to let nature follow its course with them as a hard lesson to the stupid. If we need boosters to protect the fully-vaccinated from them during 'The Reaping', I'll be first in line for my third shot.

 

Yeah, my heart goes out to those down under. A few years ago it was forest fires and now this.

Ron

They are stuck in a country filled with unvaccinated in a world filled with the Delta virus just itching to spread on the tasty humans fresh down under. The very low AUZ case and death rates removed the fear incentive for early vaccination of the general population like it did the US. Now they've got the worst of case of defending a relentless virus from a mainly unprotected population that's been locked up for months with endless months of more lockdowns ahead. Masks are not very effective in this case, you need general population isolation to reduce case loads back to near zero.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-57647413

Covid: How Delta exposed Australia's pandemic weaknesses

In New South Wales, of which Sydney is the state capital, officials are reporting near 100% household transmission compared to 25% for earlier strains. People there have caught the virus just from passing one another in a shop.

"Delta is just extremely, highly contagious. And even with the vaccinated workforce there's still potential to transmit," says Prof Nancy Baxter, head of the School of Population and Global Health at the University of Melbourne.

She points out that prior to the outbreak, officials had seen Delta cases where "they can't even identify how the transmission occurred".

"So I think even when the systems are perfect, it's challenging. But the systems aren't perfect, which just kind of makes us almost sitting ducks."

 

I don't want my young grand-kids to die with the virus.
Young kids and people who have other medical problems are unvaccinated on purpose. Lockdowns and restrictions help them survive because all the unvaccinated people pass the virus to them and even vaccinated people do too.
The vaccine prevents vaccinated people from being hospitalized or getting killed by the virus but does not prevent spreading it around.

There is barely enough time now for older and healthy unvaccinated people to get the shots before school starts (6 weeks).

 

I don't want my young grand-kids to die with the virus.

Wow, how about that we actually agree about something. Then too, I do not know of anyone who wants to see their children or grandchildren die of CIVID or for that matter anything else.

Moaning about the unvaccinated is not going to change anything. If someone opposes vaccination for any reason there is no way to force vaccination on them. Now if you have a way to get everyone vaccinated please do share with the class? As I mentioned, you can lead a horse to water but ... you can't make them drink.

As to children actually dying of the COVID 19 Virus? There really isn't much good data out there. Not all states are reporting data and no clue what is going on elsewhere. American Academy of Pediatrics has some data regarding children and yes, in about 4 to 6 weeks as schools open it might get interesting. Anyway as it stands now there is no way to force the unvaccinated to get vaccinated.

Ron

 

The problem with this would be being able to distinguish less asking "papers please" just who is and is not actually vaccinated.

Ron

Why would we have to ask for "papers?", everyone is obviously vaccinated. And asking for papers during a wartime effort is not unusual. Giving up personal freedom like getting drafted is part of wartime and defeating the opponent.
Nobody has declared the war is over.

 

I don't want my young grand-kids to die with the virus.
Young kids and people who have other medical problems are unvaccinated on purpose. Lockdowns and restrictions help them survive because all the unvaccinated people pass the virus to them and even vaccinated people do too.
The vaccine prevents vaccinated people from being hospitalized or getting killed by the virus but does not prevent spreading it around.

There is barely enough time now for older and healthy unvaccinated people to get the shots before school starts (6 weeks).

No, the lockdowns and restrictions need to apply voluntary only to those unvaccinated on purpose because of limitations, not personal choices. For the fully vaccinated even bad delta is now equivalent to flu. We don't need general restrictions to handle that. The vaccinated have already shown good judgement. We, the fully vaccinated can handle mild flu symptom cases if it means living close to normal lives.

For the personal choice unvaccinated.

 

For the fully vaccinated even bad delta is now equivalent to flu. We don't need general restrictions to handle that. The vaccinated have already shown good judgement.

Then how do you explain all of the "breakthrough covid cases". While they may not be life threatening to the person with one, that person is still capable of transferring it to people around them. And the virus seems to still be mutating in those with a breakthrough case.

 

Then how do you explain all of the "breakthrough covid cases". While they may not be life threatening to the person with one, that person is still capable of transferring it to people around them. And the virus seems to still be mutating in those with a breakthrough case.

There is no explaining to do for those who actually understand what "breakthrough covid cases" are instead of some news bite they heard. "Breakthrough covid cases" were always expected and are included with every realistic prediction model.
"Breakthrough covid disease" is what we don't have, yet and hope we don't start to see high levels of.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2107058
Prevention and Attenuation of Covid-19 with the BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 Vaccines

https://www.statnews.com/2021/07/23...-coronavirus-infections-one-expert-weighs-in/

Dr. Gounder, how concerned are you about these instances of breakthrough infections in people who are fully vaccinated?

I think we really need to better define what we mean by breakthrough infections. That’s really a catch-all for people who might have an infection with no, or very mild, symptoms, all the way to somebody who might end up in the ICU, or even dead. What concerns me is breakthrough disease — people who have significant symptoms, who are struggling to breathe, who are ending up in the hospital, and we really haven’t seen breakthrough disease with the vaccines.

Low vaccination rates are the root cause driving up cases. I've lost any possible empathy for what happens to those that decide not to be vaccinated. They not heroes of freedom and any such nonsense.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2021/07/23...-coronavirus-infections-one-expert-weighs-in/

Did you read beyond the first paragraph of that link? Both quotes from your link.

"I really think we should be tracking breakthrough infections. And here’s why. Those people who are still getting infected despite being vaccinated, they may not get sick, but it is possible that they could transmit the infection on to others. And so that’s something we still don’t really have a handle on. There is some evidence from the sports leagues, where they do a lot of testing, that some of these people may, in fact, be contagious. And so that is concerning."

"The second reason that we really want to be tracking breakthrough infections is for what we call genomic surveillance, which is where we look at new variants that are starting to emerge and what do those look like? You’re more likely to find new emerging variants among people who have breakthrough infections. We’re sort of flying blind with respect to that, because we’re not assessing those breakthrough infections."

 

Did you read beyond the first paragraph of that link? Both quotes from your link.

"I really think we should be tracking breakthrough infections. And here’s why. Those people who are still getting infected despite being vaccinated, they may not get sick, but it is possible that they could transmit the infection on to others. And so that’s something we still don’t really have a handle on. There is some evidence from the sports leagues, where they do a lot of testing, that some of these people may, in fact, be contagious. And so that is concerning."

"The second reason that we really want to be tracking breakthrough infections is for what we call genomic surveillance, which is where we look at new variants that are starting to emerge and what do those look like? You’re more likely to find new emerging variants among people who have breakthrough infections. We’re sort of flying blind with respect to that, because we’re not assessing those breakthrough infections."

I totally agree with all of that, why would you you possibly think I wouldn't. So what's the issue? You seem to be just making up some sort of argument for silly reasons known only to yourself. I'm glad you read the articles so maybe you can get to understand what a lot of us already know.

 

The vaccine prevents vaccinated people from being hospitalized or getting killed by the virus but does not prevent spreading it around.

Not necessarily a true statement. While not definitive, there is a growing body of evidence that the vaccine DOES prevent the virus from spreading. One such report is:

The study demonstrates that these two mRNA vaccines can reduce the risk of all SARS-CoV-2 infections, not just symptomatic infections.

cdc.gov

 

Why would we have to ask for "papers?", everyone is obviously vaccinated.

Absolutely and everyone will also be 100% truthful about it.

Ron

 

The double vaccine reduces the risk of Covid-19 infections and their symptoms, it does not eliminate the risk. The vaccines are 90% or more effective against hospitalization or death which is pretty good.

Unvaccinated people will be banned from so many places and events that they will even be banned from being jailed.
Many places in the world already have Vax Proof Cards. I do not know if kids are exempted.