I would like to do the Panama Canal again.

The recommendation from health officials is that anyone over 60 should not be getting on a cruise ship anytime soon.

We don't have good mortality rates, but the cases in China and Washington state show that it's hard on older people. I read that any lung damage could be permanent. Don't have a reference to cite. Will update if I come across it again.

At least the number of deaths in the US hasn't gone up today. The number of infections will, but that was a given because testing has been restricted to people showing symptoms. The 80% who will have mild symptoms won't be tested unless testing requirements are changed.

 

A


And so on and so on. Boston’s St. Patrick’s Day Parade has been cancelled. Is this the media’s fault or is it the fault of the people, emboldened by an administration with an anti-science bias, who fight back against the health system?

For some people, common sense is enough. For others, until a pandemic kills their family, common sense is not enough. I’m glad that people in the US feel that their thoughts are being recognized.

What totally angers me, is that if someone disagrees with me, believes science is a way that they’re being controlled, believes that somehow I am the villain, then I should be shot.

If you don’t understand my model, get some lighter fluid and a box of matchbooks. Pull the matches out and soak them in lighter fluid.

Get a cookie sheet and aluminum foil. Cover the pan with foil. Then, lay the sheet so the short side faces you.

At the bottom, place one match in the center, the match head at the too. We’ll go for an exponent of 2. Then, place two matches from the first match head. Then at each match head continue placing two more match heads. Continue as for as you can.

Light the bottom match. This represents the first infection. Note what happens, as each person infects two others. If this isn’t impressive enough, on several matches, only put one match and continue the pattern as before.

I could say, there was only one match, so why worry. But you’ll still get a conflagration. Video your experiment. I think some of us might like to see the result.

Don’t do this without a fire extinguisher nearby.

To a point I can agree with you but the fact is neither you nor I can do anything about it. I am not about ready to start screaming the sky is falling and the evil empire (government) is hiding the truth. Can this thing reach pandemic proportions? Will millions die in the streets? I have no idea and neither do most people. Take precautions? Heck yes and common sense dictates take precautions but become a prisoner in my own home and fear going out? No, I am not quite ready to start freaking out yelling "ain't no time to wonder why, we're all gonna die". Not everyone is going to agree with your views and comments regarding the current administration serve more to weaken than strengthen your argument. This is going to be whatever it is going to be or Que sera, sera. So what do you suggest? We start freaking out? Jumping off high buildings? Remain at home behind closed doors and have absolutely no contact with other people? Really matters not if people understand science. While the use of matches is cool to explain an exponential spread of the disease I wonder if it can also be compared to this effect?

I figure right now we are seeing enough panic without me promoting it, just yet anyway. My point through all of this is that there is nothing, aside from basic precautions, you or I can do about it.

Ron

 

The recommendation from health officials is that anyone over 60 should not be getting on a cruise ship anytime soon.

We don't have good mortality rates, but the cases in China and Washington state show that it's hard on older people. I read that any lung damage could be permanent. Don't have a reference to cite. Will update if I come across it again.

At least the number of deaths in the US hasn't gone up today. The number of infections will, but that was a given because testing has been restricted to people showing symptoms. The 80% who will have mild symptoms won't be tested unless testing requirements are changed.

Yeah and I see this as age discrimination. It's true and unfortunately I can't turn back the clock. I just turned 70 and I would like to enjoy retirement a little longer and I'll be darned if I want to die as a result of a bug! My read is this is not having much impact on young people and children.

My sister's cruise left right when this all began and she doesn't seem concerned and seems to be enjoying herself. She still has about 3 weeks to go. Let's just hope New Zealand let's them back in where they departed from.

Ron

 

According to my FL relatives in the Canaveral area it has basically shut down Port Canaveral and their cruise industry support network. Apparently same with the air travel to some extent.

 

The number of infections will, but that was a given because testing has been restricted to people showing symptoms.

Perhaps the word "limited" is a better description than "restricted". Currently, testing is like any other lab test for a health issue. Someone goes to their doctor or ER because they feel sick and the doctor orders a Covid-19 lab test. Since most people without symptoms or mild symptoms don't go to the doctors, these people do not get tested. I don't think it is a situation where testing is "restricted" in the sense you have to be "sick enough" to get the test. Simply, people without symptoms or with mild symptoms don't get involved with the health care system. I will add, the whole kerfuffle lately about the low number of tests performed is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how the kits are used and the difficulty of performing the tests. They are not just peeing on a stick.

Going forward, a low number of tests will be a good thing. It means fewer people are getting sick to a point where they seek care. More, perhaps random, testing helps public health agencies to know more about what is going on but that is another topic. In any case, I just don't see jack booted squads going around holding people still and swabbing noses.

Edit: I add this statement from the Washington State Department Of Health to put testing in perspective:

"people do not always need to be tested for clinical care purposes since there is currently no medication to treat COVID-19. Currently, anyone with a fever and cough should assume their illness could be COVID-19 and take steps to protect others in the community and household from the disease."

 

Perhaps the word "limited" is a better description than "restricted". Currently, testing is like any other lab test for a health issue. Someone goes to their doctor or ER because they feel sick and the doctor orders a Covid-19 lab test. Since most people without symptoms or mild symptoms don't go to the doctors, these people do not get tested.

I read about a health care provider who was going to be working with elderly people. She wanted to get tested before working around them to make sure she caused no harm by being infected. She couldn't get a test even though two doctors agreed that she should be tested and approved.

The last I heard was that if a doctor ordered the test, it should be approved.

 

I read about a health care provider who was going to be working with elderly people. She wanted to get tested before working around them to make sure she caused no harm by being infected. She couldn't get a test even though two doctors agreed that she should be tested and approved.

The last I heard was that if a doctor ordered the test, it should be approved.

The flaw in the health care providers concern is she could be exposed at any time after getting the test and put the elderly folks at risk. There is not currently, that I am aware of, any requirements for workers at elder care facilities to be tested. I just don't think this is practical or effective. Frankly, I would assume if two doctors agreed she be tested, she was showing symptoms. Then, if she was showing symptoms, she should not have contact with elderly people or anyone else. This is a precautionary measure which does not need a test.

 

The flaw in the health care providers concern is she could be exposed at any time after getting the test and put the elderly folks at risk. There is not currently, that I am aware of, any requirements for workers at elder care facilities to be tested. I just don't think this is practical or effective. Frankly, I would assume if two doctors agreed she be tested, she was showing symptoms. Then, if she was showing symptoms, she should not have contact with elderly people or anyone else. This is a precautionary measure which does not need a test.

According to the CDC and many doctors, 80% of people with coronavirus will have mild or no symptoms. Those people are still carriers.

That could be an adult going to visit a parent in a nursing home; or little Johnny going to visit grandma. Or a nurse, or a doctor, treating coronavirus patients in a hospital and then going on to treat the next patient for something else...

 

According to the CDC and many doctors, 80% of people with coronavirus will have mild or no symptoms. Those people are still carriers.

That could be an adult going to visit a parent in a nursing home; or little Johnny going to visit grandma. Or a nurse, or a doctor, treating coronavirus patients in a hospital and then going on to treat the next patient for something else...

It gets worse. My wife is a nurse in a medical intensive care unit. Guess where the really ill Covid-19 patients will be going and guess where she goes after work.

 

To a point I can agree with you but the fact is neither you nor I can do anything about it. I am not about ready to start screaming the sky is falling and the evil empire (government) is hiding the truth. Can this thing reach pandemic proportions? Will millions die in the streets? I have no idea and neither do most people. Take precautions? Heck yes and common sense dictates take precautions but become a prisoner in my own home and fear going out? No, I am not quite ready to start freaking out yelling "ain't no time to wonder why, we're all gonna die". Not everyone is going to agree with your views and comments regarding the current administration serve more to weaken than strengthen your argument. This is going to be whatever it is going to be or Que sera, sera. So what do you suggest? We start freaking out? Jumping off high buildings? Remain at home behind closed doors and have absolutely no contact with other people? Really matters not if people understand science. While the use of matches is cool to explain an exponential spread of the disease I wonder if it can also be compared to this effect?

I figure right now we are seeing enough panic without me promoting it, just yet anyway. My point through all of this is that there is nothing, aside from basic precautions, you or I can do about it.

Ron

Good comment! I’ve removed the reference to the current administration and just refer to “the current anti-science bias”. Although there is a link there, I don’t want to offend supporters.

I do disagree with you when you state, there is nothing we can do. I’ve gone through many public health crises. Reminding us all of basic preventative messages is a critical response.

Ignoring such basic measures will allow an exponential infection path to have its effect magnified.

Consider HIV. Should health resources stop recommending safe sex, because we don’t personally know many people who are infected? It’s a waste of time and money isn’t it? People at risk, old people, people with lung problems are such a small portion of the population, why should anyone intrude on your life?

My point comes down to values. You may not be at risk. Does that give you the right to put me at risk?

What is the argument of the people who are uncomfortable with the media? Is it a selfish position, an informed position or a political decision? They shouldn’t be afraid to identify themselves as to their motivation if they feel like they are right.

Let me know!

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

AGE​	DEATH RATE confirmed cases	DEATH RATE all cases
80+ years old ​	21.9%​	14.8%​
70-79 years old ​	​	8.0%​
60-69 years old ​	​	3.6%​
50-59 years old ​	​	1.3%​
40-49 years old ​	​	0.4%​
30-39 years old ​	​	0.2%​
20-29 years old ​	​	0.2%​
10-19 years old ​	​	0.2%​
0-9 years old	​	no fatalities ​

The worst possible outcome is that all of us boomers die in a short period and the millennials are forced to take control. That would mean a quick end to modern civilization.

Maybe this is how the government intends to "Fix" the budget shortfall in the Social Security Trust Fund. Just release a contagious virus that affects the elderly, but not younger people and Waaa - Laaa, there's suddenly billions of unclaimed benefits available.

 

Pardon me for sounding like a conspiracy theorist, but maybe the Covid-19 virus is actually a bio weapon that was accidentally released in Wuhan and it's now propagating out of control. For the past year,

Also, China has been have trouble with Hong Kong and it has sent in 1000s of police to use force against the protesters. China is a very dangerous government and it's a sure bet that it has WMDs ready to use against any military and civilian targets that might be in its way.

 

Working in healthcare, it is strange watching the amount of panic and paranoia surrounding this. So far, unless something changes, it is basically a severe flu. Yes, it is new. Do we have a cure for flu? Not really. Does the flu vaccine work? Not really. Take away from this - take same precautions you always do during a bad flu season. Flu outbrakes happen at care facilities every year. We had one in January.it spread to the hospital.

Pandemic only means it is a virus that has spread globally... Does not mean more than that.

If it mutates to something worse, then reevaluate. Personally, it just made it more difficult for me to plan my may trip to Europe.

 

Working in healthcare, it is strange watching the amount of panic and paranoia surrounding this. So far, unless something changes, it is basically a severe flu. Yes, it is new. Do we have a cure for flu? Not really. Does the flu vaccine work? Not really. Take away from this - take same precautions you always do during a bad flu season. Flu outbrakes happen at care facilities every year. We had one in January.it spread to the hospital.

Pandemic only means it is a virus that has spread globally... Does not mean more than that.

If it mutates to something worse, then reevaluate. Personally, it just made it more difficult for me to plan my may trip to Europe.

73yo here.

Not a thorough response to the above but simply to add:

First time I think seriously of flu, having traveled a lot in the past (whole life) and mostly not for fun. If there is no return because age, postponing a trip is wise. Exactly what I did, few days ago.

 

Hello,

Here is an other workmap of corona cases:
http://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Bertus

 

Coronavirus this, Coronavirus that. Stock Market blah, blah, blah. It's all over the news.
Haven't even got it yet and I'm already sick of it!
Brzrkr

 

I do disagree with you when you state, there is nothing we can do. I’ve gone through many public health crises. Reminding us all of basic preventative messages is a critical response.

Ignoring such basic measures will allow an exponential infection path to have its effect magnified.

Apply common sense, that's how I figure it. Not to do nothing but as an individual do what one can do. At the same time do not contribute to inducing panic in others, especially those easily influenced.

Ron

 

I'm in the "High Risk" age and health group so I won't be doing any travel for a while. At this point, I don't even want to go to my doctor's visits.

 

I'm in the "High Risk" age and health group so I won't be doing any travel for a while. At this point, I don't even want to go to my doctor's visits.

That’s funny you should say that, I’ve been putting off going for my annual physical, I also need to get you know what down under, I put that off last year, I‘m supposed to go in every 2 years, ain’t going to do that either till this thing either proves itself as a danger or when they get it under control.

Just like @justtrying said, if this thing mutates we’re all going to have to hold on to the seat of our pants. For me I’m not only at the age for it to be a threat now but I have lung issues, and my wife has very little immune system and works around small children. I think I need to see an attorney on making a trust, because I can’t trust that I won’t come down with it, my job is to new or I could Telecommute but, my wife would just drag the damn virus home from the school she works at.

kv

 

According to the CDC and many doctors, 80% of people with coronavirus will have mild or no symptoms. Those people are still carriers.

Kind of reminds you of some one named Mary back during the late 1800s.