Hello All, I just joined AAC and I must confess that I didn't fit any of the professions listed on the entry form. My wife and I are architects but we've mostly hung up my T-squares and I'm spending a lot of time just fiddling with old cars. I've run into a problem with power windows on a 1967 Ferrari. They were working fine until I had to dismount the center console to sort out some other problems. When I removed the switches, I carefully noted the position of the wires and I'm near certain that they are wired correctly. But for some reason, I can not get the windows to operate. I should mention that each window has its own DPDT switch and they are completely independent of each other. I was puzzled when I got in there because the wiring diagram does not reflect what I'm seeing. The wiring diagram shows that each motor has only two wires that connect to a rocker switch control (push up and window goes up, down and the window goes down). Instead what I'm seeing are 4 wires coming from somewhere near the bottom of the motor. One grounds the unit to the door. The next two are the wires I had expected to see from the wiring diagram and connect to the switch. Finally, there is a 4th (black) wire from the motor that connects to the spade connector on the switch. My multi tester shows that this wire is grounded at the motor end. There is a 12v wire coming from the fuse box that connects to the final spade connection, in between the two primary wires. I've attached a rough wiring diagram. Using my multi tester, I can see that the switch connects contacts 1,2 and 4 when activated in one direction and 2,3 and 4 in the other direction. I don't understand how any circuit connecting contact 2 (12 v+) and contact 4 (grounded) wouldn't create a short. I don't believe there is a diode anywhere in the circuitry. Based on these symptoms, is it possible that the four wires from the motor are initially connected to a relay? It doesn't look like it and I was hoping to avoid removing the motor to get a better look. I have looked for an additional hot wire in the door jamb that would be needed (I think) if there is a relay. I know that this is pretty simple stuff for you guys but any help would be greatly appreciated.
Best,
CharlieRanchero
appreciated.
Tom

 

Welcome
If none of the windows operate check the common ground and +12v supply fuse.
Find the contacts behavior of the switches. What happens when off/up/down at each terminal. Your explanation says #2 always feeds #4.
#4 yellow-black is not ground. Find out why the motor has 4 wires instead of 2; where do they connect. (perhaps is just older technology, two windings.)
To follow voltage, I suggest you use a 12V light probe instead of a multimeter.

 

Welcome
If none of the windows operate check the common ground and +12v supply fuse.
Find the contacts behavior of the switches. What happens when off/up/down at each terminal. Your explanation says #2 always feeds #4.
#4 yellow-black is not ground. Find out why the motor has 4 wires instead of 2; where do they connect. (perhaps is just older technology, two windings.)
To follow voltage, I suggest you use a 12V light probe instead of a multimeter.


View attachment 340556

Thanks for your help! There is a separate circuit for the driver's and passenger's window. They each have a dedicated 30 amp fuse and I've cleaned their contacts. We have good 12 volt readings at each switch. Both windows stopped working at the same time when I had to remove them and their wiring to pull out the center console. I took careful notes on which wire went where on each switch. Currently, both windows are in the down position. When I activate one of the switches, I hear a small thump in one direction but no movement. In the other direction, no sound, no movement Exactly the same response on both. I just learned from the previous owner that the motors had failed some years ago and he had someone install new motors off a convertible top mechanism. This would explain why nothing seems to reflect the factory wiring diagram which shows two wires coming from the motor directly to the toggle switch with a third 12 volt wire mounted between them. The switches appear to be original except there is a forth spade connector for the additional yellow wire coming off the motor. You're correct that whenever the toggle switch is activated, it always bridges contact #2 (12v) with contact #4 (yellow wire from motor) and either the #1 or #3 contact. If I've mis-wired one of the switches, I must have done the same thing to both since they both stopped working at the same time. Operator error? Likely. When I saw that the yellow wire has continuity with the ground, I mistakenly assumed that it ran directly to ground in the same way that checking for continuity on a hot wire with a light bulb on the circuit will show continuity with ground thanks to the filament. I'll pick up a 12 v tester and let you know what else I find. Stay tuned for further exciting developments.

 

Quite possibly an extra wire that seems to be a "ground" connection is passing thru a thermostat to switch things off when the motor overheats. So that might be the missing ground connection. And how do te motors also get controlled from the console? It really IS rather complex.

 

Determine which are the only TWO wires feeding the motor and with two pieces of wire, (to +12V and chassis,) apply plus / minus direct/reversed ONLY to them to force the up/down to confirm motors are free to run and there is no mechanism binding.

Perhaps helps, as I know peanuts about their models and years :

----> https://www.birdman308.com/service/windowservice/index.html
----> https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/power-window-rebuild.317940