What are you doing asking a guy on his second day?

Well, you've got a whole two days more experience than I've got on this subject! ... it's like a lifetime in relative terms ... that made me look up to you in awe and gave me the courage to ask ...

You just keep getting back here and report on your progress... I find it fascinating.

 

What's the story with this welder anyway?

I just accidentally acquired a cheap arc welder

Pretty vague. Did it fall off a truck into your van or what?

 

Did it fall off a truck into your van or what

Moving sale. No room in the new place, so I can have it. The window air and the washer/dryer will be along next week.
The fact that nobody knew what was wrong with it or what to do about it, made it perfect for an electronics nerd. One look and I knew all the external wires were too small, and I had half the necessary stuff laying around in the shed.

I'm getting better real fast.
I can strike a spark without flinching and I can go right back into the puddle when the arc quenches. I can't quite lay a straight line, but I can control the height of the bead. I recognize that some people say the last few inches of rod goes really fast because the impedance of the rod is part of the system. When the rod impedance is nearly zero, the current goes up and the rod tends to vaporize more than it lays down new metal. The bead splatters so it gets flat and wide. There is no point in owning short rods unless you turn the amps down. I expect that means less when you're using bigger diameter rods because they have lower impedance in the first place, therefore your amp setting for a rod 1/8th or larger isn't so far wrong as it gets to the last 4 inches.

After the hand-eye coordination, everything depends on the amps, and 10 amps can make all the difference between vaporizing rod and laying down a line.

EDIT: Now it's getting to where the amp label on the machine doesn't mean much. It's just a starting point and the sound of the arc means more than the label. Set the estimated amps, burn for a second, and know which way to turn the knob.

 

Now it's getting to where the amp label on the machine doesn't mean much. It's just a starting point and the sound of the arc means more than the label. Set the estimated amps, burn for a second, and know which way to turn the knob.

Now you getting it. Tried to explain it in my first post but hard to do at a distance and not one on one. To the 1/2 is too thick and the 1/16 is to thin thing. 1/16 rod will be fine on 1/2 plate, your learning the hand coordination thing, not trying to hold things together, yet. The 1/4" rating on the machine means with the right amps and rod it should join a 1/4 plate in one pass. Heavier plate can still be welded, it just takes a deeper bevel and more passes. People learn and teach things differently, when you have a lot of different people telling you different things it's hard to sort the "wheat from the chaff". I've been fabricating stuff with welding since about 12 years old, when grandpa got tired of doing it for me and showed me how. Pretty soon you'll be looking for a better welder, and then it will take off from there. The welder you have while anyone that can weld wouldn't buy it, is/would be easier to use by some one with more experience.

 

If you're just laying down lines, don't worry about keeping the lines straight. When I do this, my lines always droop toward me. This is because you have very little reference cues when you are welding, so your lines just follow your "best guess". If you are welding two pieces in a butt weld, use the soap stone to highlight the joint to give yourself some cues. Welding up a T-joint is much easier to learn with, since there are more "directional" cues.

I modified my helmet by pop riveting some jeans material on the top so that it darkened the inside of my helmet when in full sun. Use enough denim so that it doesn't interfer with the helmet when it is up.

Don't go below #9 on your lens. Especially don't use the lighter torch lenses when arc welding - it really will damage your eyes.

 

. The 1/4" rating on the machine means with the right amps and rod it should join a 1/4 plate in one pass. Heavier plate can still be welded, it just takes a deeper bevel and more passes.

My limited experience with under powered welders is that they simply won't Weld anything larger than what they're rated. The Weld does not burn in. It just pops and fizzles and throws off little BBs of hot metal in every direction. This is mostly in reference to wire feed welders, I have very little experience with stick welders apart from the very first Welder I bought and that was years ago.

 

Now you getting it.

The bottom line is that humans require time to assimilate, evaluate, and organize new information. A dozen people can tell me the sound to listen for, but I have to experience it in order to develop an ability to recognize its proper spectrum and amplitude.

I've been sparking for two days and I know what a hot pop is. It's, "time to turn the current down".
I expect the rest of this journey is mostly about tuning up the skills I have just now started.

 

The bottom line is that humans require time to assimilate, evaluate, and organize new information. A dozen people can tell me the sound to listen for, but I have to experience it in order to develop an ability to recognize its proper spectrum and amplitude.

I've been sparking for two days and I know what a hot pop is. It's, "time to turn the current down".
I expect the rest of this journey is mostly about tuning up the skills I have just now started.

Next thing you know, you'll probably be learning a musical instrument next...
You already play the guitar, don't you?

 

You already play the guitar, don't you?

Yep. 27 years I played, and the most important lesson is that you have to learn about those dots and flags.
You can't think in musical terms if you can't read and write the language.
If you can't think in the language of music, you have no way to develop your own ideas.

I can draw schematics, write computer programs, and do thermodynamic calculations that go on for pages, but I can't read music.
I can play a hundred songs, but I never played a note that somebody else didn't write.
That feels like a bad thing.

 

I can play a hundred songs, but I never played a note that somebody else didn't write.

Oh, but I'm sure you can... You just don't consider it important enough to write your own stuff.... YET

I'm sure of what I'm telling you, because I've witnessed your creative side. You only have to consider it important enough for you to feel it's worth your time diving into it.

 

Yep. 27 years I played, and the most important lesson is that you have to learn about those dots and flags.
You can't think in musical terms if you can't read and write the language.
If you can't think in the language of music, you have no way to develop your own ideas.

I can draw schematics, write computer programs, and do thermodynamic calculations that go on for pages, but I can't read music.
I can play a hundred songs, but I never played a note that somebody else didn't write.
That feels like a bad thing.

Can you read tabs? I agree, some people can write music, they have a gift for song writing while others admittedly can play a song written.

Had a drummer friend very gifted, said to me. I can't write music but, can play pretty much anything and could read music.

My next door neighbor few years back, learned to play the piano at age 6 by himself, he was groomed by a Russian Pianist for free, he charged at the time 9k a lesson, he kicked out one of his students of six to accommodate him. He was taught to read and translate music, if he was given a piece of Music "Bach, Beethoven etc, he could translate it to piano and of course he was a savant, gifted but had urges and became an Alcoholic drug addict, no longer using Heroin, but still addicted to Alcohol. He told me, I can't write music, but can play anything you set in front of me.

I think your like that with circuits. Able to make it up, read it or Translate it. A gift.

kv

 

The bottom line is that humans require time to assimilate, evaluate, and organize new information. A dozen people can tell me the sound to listen for, but I have to experience it in order to develop an ability to recognize its proper spectrum and amplitude.

I've been sparking for two days and I know what a hot pop is. It's, "time to turn the current down".
I expect the rest of this journey is mostly about tuning up the skills I have just now started.

The not being able to see the joint thing is also something that takes time. It's kind of like learning how to put a nut on a bolt on the other side of something where you can't see. Hard to explain how to do it, but comes with experience. This is also one of the advantages of learning with a larger rod diameter, more light from the arc. I read what you guys were saying about playing guitar, the knowing where the joint in welding is kind of like being able to play cords and notes without looking at the neck while doing it.

Like I said earlier, a cheap welder is harder to learn with. Your being stuck with the limits of the machine. Like troubleshooting a circuit with a voltmeter when you really need a scope.

 

My limited experience with under powered welders is that they simply won't Weld anything larger than what they're rated. The Weld does not burn in. It just pops and fizzles and throws off little BBs of hot metal in every direction. This is mostly in reference to wire feed welders, I have very little experience with stick welders apart from the very first Welder I bought and that was years ago.

I can and have all forms of welders, oxy/acet, stick, tig and mig. The wire welder even a small one will "burn in", but only to the depth the amps allow. If your getting pops, fizzles and bb's, it's usually one of two things.

1. Your not getting a good gas shield or using the wrong mix. Even a fan blowing at the weld will keep the gas moving away from the arc, or welding outside on a windy day can do it. I showed a friend how to mig, at my shop he did good. A few days latter he called and said he couldn't get good welds, so I went to his shop. He had a fan setup to blow the smoke away form him while he welded, turned the fan off and no problems welding. Smoke and heat are just part of the welding process.

2. You may have the stinger tip too far from the joint. This lets the wire melt and cool before it gets a chance to melt into the joint. And also adds to the not a good gas shield problem. The gas is to mig welding as the flux is to stick welding, keeps oxygen from oxidizing the melted metal.

 

Can you read tabs?

Yebbut...I remember being way back in grade school. The teacher played piano and the children sang.
Girls were called, "soprano" and boys were called, "alto".
The alto line was always contrapuntal.
One day I realized that the boy next to me, and I, were singing exactly the same alto line after nobody taught us how to do it in that song.
If I can do music like that at 7 years old, the only thing stopping me is illiteracy.
You can call that laziness or different priorities or the lack of any teacher showing us that it was even possible to be literate in music.
I don't have any excuse at 66 years old, unless you count the myriad other skills I developed.
I simply decided that building physical things was more satisfying than being able to read music.

 

Don't go below #9 on your lens. - it really will damage your eyes.

@tcmtech
Can you confirm this opinion?

 

This has been a "fun" thread to read. I've had a stick, mig and tig welder in my hands at least once. I was told i did very well for the short trials.
I just would not have a clue how to pick the right rod or settings. It probably helps that I was the best at silver soldering at work (all a bunch of amateurs) and I picked up working with quartz and pyrex quickly as well. I could seal stuff under vacuum, join different sized tubes, jouin square tubes to round tubes and make controlled leak holes.

 

The bottom line is that humans require time to assimilate, evaluate, and organize new information. A dozen people can tell me the sound to listen for, but I have to experience it in order to develop an ability to recognize its proper spectrum and amplitude.

Yep. An interesting thing I noticed when I worked at the local Praxair store as their service tech for a year or so is that every welder is an expert and everyone else is wrong in how they do their welds. Ones personal way of doing things is totally contradictory to what the next guy says and so on yet in the end they all make the same beads that join metal pieces together.

The biggest thing I saw was with 'certified welders' they were just like 'certified mechanic' or 'certified' anything else. They had a piece of paper that said they knew something but damn if you got them anywhere outside that pencil thin line of knowledge that 'certification' related to they were way too often bumbling fools. Arrogant bumbling fools but still bumbling fools just the same.

Now the average guy who came in off the farm 'who don't know nothin bout weldin' they were the ones who had brains worth picking being most of them spent half their life welding things back together that any certified guy 'knew couldn't be done' and thusly would have never tried let alone did successfully because they never knew it was 'impossible' begin with.

Can you confirm this opinion?

Depends on the arc strength, distance and exposure time more than anything. A 70 amp or more arc at 12 inches through a #7 or #8 lens for hours on end, yea it will probably mess up your eyes after a few months of daily exposure but at normal arms length comfortable distance not likely unless you already have eye issues.

Also not all lenses are made equal either. One companies #9 might be closer to another's #10 or more or the reverse. Especially with the digital lens systems and their age. LCD crystals do age with time and your brand new helmet with new batteries will have way better LCD crystal light blocking characteristics now than it will have in a few years or when running on old batteries.

When I worked at Praxair we sold a lot of #6 - #8 'brazing lenses' to guys who ran small machines because the standard #9 and higher lens most helmets came with were too dark for the light work they did.

I think that has a lot to do with why most of the good quality adjustable electronic helmets now can be turned down to #7 - #8 minimal levels now. A huge part of their market is the small hobby people who don't run anything bigger than a 100 amp machine and #9 and up is just too dark to be practical for them.

Mostly it's like anything else what feels right to you? If the arc through the lens seems/feels too bright then it probably is. If not then you're probably fine.

My personal reference for exposure is if I can run a weld for 5 - 6 seconds looking directly at the arc then look to the side with the helmet dark and blink and see residual images of the weld arc for more than a few seconds the helmet is set too low. If I am not seeing a persistent after image then it's probably good.

That said, until I pass the ~ 200 amp range or do aluminum or stainless my helmets never get set above 9. Like you, it's too dark and just doesn't look and feel right for me.

 

When I worked at Praxair we sold a lot of #6 - #8 'brazing lenses' to guys who ran small machines because the standard #9 and higher lens most helmets came with were too dark for the light work they did.

OK. I found a helmet last night that has 2 ranges: 5 to 9 and 9 to 13 and replaceable batteries!
I'd probably be good with a 6 to 10, but they don't exist.

 

You can cheat a helmet darkness up with a tinted insert. It's just a plastic lens cover you really should have any way to protect the LCD panel from weld splatter.

Just get a lightly tinted one instead of the clear one if you need to go above #9 setting.

Odds are for what work you will eve do with your machine you will never need to go above #9 setting anyway.

If you're really cheap and lazy you can take a piece of automotive window tinting film or two and put it on the back of the clear lens cover that should come with the new helmet to darken it up.

 

You can cheat a helmet darkness up with a tinted insert.

to darken it up.

if you need to go above #9 setting.

I don't need it darker.