$7000 for maitenece and repair? Really? Have I ever been lucky.

Then too an arid climate (with reference to your location info) is likely rather 'machinery friendly' (granting conscientious fluid and filter maintenance of course!)

Now that's a real problem. Bet that ruined an otherwise good day.

I would have been pleased had it only ruined a fortnight!

Maybe to some extent, but that has been around for a long time. My $.02 is on resistance to change. Mostly automation and the global economy. Those two things have made it much harder on the individualists and it has happened quickly enough to create a problem with retraining. It bothers people when they have a feeling of going backwards. It bothers them even more to be hungry.

More generally I assert that new change isn't always 'progress' and that maintenance/restoration of individual rights, privileges and responsibility -even at the ostensible expense of 'The Whole'- is not necessarily 'regression'. --- Note that a well staffed/operated penitentiary offers all of convenience, security, the essentials of (physical) life, freedom of responsibility (i.e. choice) and indeed 'social justice' - and at the same price - to wit: sacrifice of personal liberty, privacy and dignity -- But...

In my experience collectivism and individualism are utterly immiscible philosophies (I daresay even theologies) -- Hence no good can come of debate --- That said, politics aside, there is no inherent obstacle to cooperation, exchange of ideas, and indeed friendship amongst 'mixed-adherents'! Hence my strong desire that forum management reconsider their 'newfound' leniency regarding political discussion --- Somehow I get the feeling that AGW proponents' proficiency at, for instance, PLL loop filter design, is on a par with that of the skeptics

Best regards
HP

 

@tcmtech Now as my personal experience in rolling back emission compliant engine to non compliance , One of the first full top to bottom engine rebuilds and conversion I ever did was in a 1895 Ford F150 and I didn't just go stock engine roll back I went full on bigger engine to boot! . I replaced a bone stock emissions complaint 351 V8 with a built 460 and doubled both the MPG and HP numbers for that pickup and would put that fact to any dyno and road test anyone could have thrown at me.
Where is it now, at the Smithsonian?

 

Where is it now, at the Smithsonian?

Sitting behind my shop right where I parked it after a little old lady took the front end off it some years ago and totalled the pickup it's in.

Picture available if you have doubts.

Eventually that engine is either going in my 97 Ford F super duty flatbed truck or the other 99 Ford F250 Super duty I picked up a few years ago that has a bad v10 engine.

The 97 F super duty would be the better fit being it has the factory emissions compliant 460 in it that a real fuel pig and turd polisher power wise and would be best for heavy pulling being its the same base truck as the F450 and F550's where the 400 HP 500+ ft/Lb torque 460 I built would do the most good for heavy towing work but at the same time I would love to run a properly built old school big block V8 in my spare 99 just to see how the as driven numbers compare between it and my other 99 F250 Super duty being they are identical vehicles other than color. One red one white.

Power numbers are pretty obvious being the 97 F super duty 460 is rated at a dismal 255 BHP and 405 Ft/Lb's of torque and the the 99 v10 isn't much better at 275 HP and 400 Ft/Lb's. Whereas the engine I built to run ~400 BHP and 500+ Ft/Lb's on propane no less and in the past easily got better mileage numbers on propane in the old 1985 half ton pulling loads with gross weights equal to anything I pull today with either the 97 or the good 99.

 

BTW most vehicles today still don't have CVT's and 9 speed automatic transmissions.

Well, to pick a nit, I said "UP TO 9-SPEED" transmission to emphasize the improvement over the 5-speed manual or 3-speed automatics of the pre-emission control era (some were 2-speed automatic). As for your comment, that "most" vehicles do not have CVT or (6 to) 9-speed automatics, could you point some of those out to me? I don't know how you get to "most" when all of the top ten cars are CVT or 6-speed auto.

Why do you insist on arguing a current topic without updati your 10-year-old data?

PS: Even your beloved F-Series trucks do not elude the trend. For 2017, it will have up to 10-speed automatic transmissions.

I look forward to your list of vehicles.

 

That could mean he's really God and if so I can totally see it because if I was God I'd act like Trump most of the time too!

Or it could also mean he's the anti-christ.

 

Then too an arid climate (with reference to your location info) is likely rather 'machinery friendly' (granting conscientious fluid and filter maintenance of course!)


I would have been pleased had it only ruined a fortnight!


More generally I assert that new change isn't always 'progress' and that maintenance/restoration of individual rights, privileges and responsibility -even at the ostensible expense of 'The Whole'- is not necessarily 'regression'. --- Note that a well staffed/operated penitentiary offers all of convenience, security, the essentials of (physical) life, freedom of responsibility (i.e. choice) and indeed 'social justice' - and at the same price - to wit: sacrifice of personal liberty, privacy and dignity -- But...

In my experience collectivism and individualism are utterly immiscible philosophies (I daresay even theologies) -- Hence no good can come of debate --- That said, politics aside, there is no inherent obstacle to cooperation, exchange of ideas, and indeed friendship amongst 'mixed-adherents'! Hence my strong desire that forum management reconsider their 'newfound' leniency regarding political discussion --- Somehow I get the feeling that AGW proponents' proficiency at, for instance, PLL loop filter design, is on a par with that of the skeptics

Best regards
HP

You mean the good ol days?

 

I expect there are those who may quite understandably object to the typical $7,000 annual outlay)

Wow, I'd like to be your personal mechanic. No offense meant, but maybe when you go into a dealership for maintenance on your vehicles, you shouldn't talk like you type in the forum. They see dollar signs if you do.

 

@tcmtech
The point I wanted to make was that your car was an 1895! model.

 

How to make sure you lose your job:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/11...t-to-interfere-with-the-nasa-climate-division

"Gavin Schmidt, director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, has “warned” President-elect Donald Trump not to interfere with their climate activities."​

How many of us here have ever gotten a new boss at work? Was your first communication with your new boss to warn him/her not to interfere with your work?

I'd immediately fire this clown based on nothing more than this one item.

 

As for 14 MPG 200 HP v8's being pre emissions and post bieng 25 MPG WTF are you smoking and what exact brands and models of vehicle are you using as a reference or is this just general BS proclamations that can't be backed up by any degree of referenceable fact?

My 2005 Ford Explorer with a 4L V6 gets 12.5 MPG, 13 if I'm consistently really careful.
Of course, it's pure stock configuration in the drive train. I have only been able to kill computers for stupid stuff like tire pressure, blink&chirp, and "start blowing the horn in the middle of the night".

 

And of course the efficiency of those old polluting engines was really great, with 14MPG about the norm for the 200HP V8's.
Not like those inefficient, clean burning clunkers today that generate 250HP or more while getting 25MPG.Sounds pretty well implied that you think that emissions compliance improved fuel efficiency and power.

Sounds pretty well implied that you think that emissions compliance improved fuel efficiency and power.
If not what am I supposed get you implied from it?

I thought my sarcasm was obvious but apparently not to you, so let me clarify.
As GopherT noted, I was implying that the technology of the new engines meet today's emission standards while still getting much better efficiency than the old pre-emission controlled engines, not that the emission equipment improves economy.
And not what the old emissions equipment may or may not have done.
Is that clear now?

 

...is symptomatic of a mounting clash of urban vs. exurban (Spec collectivist vs individualist) culture

There is much sooth in this little statement that it bears repeating.

 

I thought my sarcasm was obvious but apparently not to you, so let me clarify.
As GopherT noted, I was implying that the technology of the new engines meet today's emission standards while still getting much better efficiency than the old pre-emission controlled engines, not that the emission equipment improves economy.
And not what the old emissions equipment may or may not have done.
Is that clear now?

Ahh, I was about to run out to the garage and take a few parts off my wife's Camry. I was expecting the mileage to go up to 50 in the city and 72 on the highway. Easily 500 HP, and a quarter mile time of around 8 seconds.

 

Well, to pick a nit, I said "UP TO 9-SPEED" transmission to emphasize the improvement over the 5-speed manual or 3-speed automatics of the pre-emission control era (some were 2-speed automatic). As for your comment, that "most" vehicles do not have CVT or (6 to) 9-speed automatics, could you point some of those out to me? I don't know how you get to "most" when all of the top ten cars are CVT or 6-speed auto.

Why do you insist on arguing a current topic without updati your 10-year-old data?

PS: Even your beloved F-Series trucks do not elude the trend. For 2017, it will have up to 10-speed automatic transmissions.

I look forward to your list of vehicles.

And what percentage of vehicles on the road do those newest models with those CVT's and 9 and 10 speed automatics make?

That should be pretty obvious as to what percentage or every vehicle in use they present and it's clearly not the majority. I'm guessing as of today it's measurable as fractions of a percent of the ~253 million registered vehicles currently in active use.

Just because something has been made doesn't immediately make it the majority let alone active encompassing standard in use.

I mean if it does since there are million dollar plus super cars out there that some people do own and drive does that by default make the majority of the vehicles on the roads also milion dollar plus super cars too?

BTW the average age of vehicles on the road today is ~11.5 years so my '10 year old data references' is actually very much up to date and valid.

11.5 years old

The average age of vehicles on the road in the U.S. is rising, even as consumers snap up more new ones — a paradox attributable to substantial increases in reliability. The typical car on the road in the U.S. is a record-high 11.5 years old, according to a new IHS Automotive survey.Jul 29, 2015

https://www.google.com/search?q=average"+age+of+registered+vehicles&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS709US709&oq=avarge+age+of+regitered+&aqs=chrome.4.69i57j0l5.9548j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

The point I wanted to make was that your car was an 1895! model.

And the base date of build relates to what when doing aftermarket customized build work?

If I refit a 2016 year manufactured engine I custom built into a 400+ HP high efficiency torque monster into my 1952 IH L110 pickup is that engine now a 1952 model and subject to the efficiencies and operating characteristics of the ~120 BHP I6 engine that pickup came with or is it still going to operate and function as a custom built and modified 40 HP 2016 production engine?

My point is when something is rebuilt and modified for whatever parameters were chosen during the rebuild and refit into any vehicle of any age none of it conforms to the standard baseline specs of either units original design afterwards.

That Ford 460CI V8 I have came from a 1977 Mercury Grand marquis Brougham but after the rebuild it has absolutely nothing in common with what it was built as (low compression 197 HP and 353 Ft/lbs torque smog compliant engine ) other than being the same block, crankshaft, connecting rods and distributor body . Everything else was new aftermarket components and had no relevant comparison to any common stock factory engines of any time period.

That's how I see removing emissions system components and changing fuel and engine control parameters. What I get afterwards is not the same as the stock design and thusly not to be held to the same base expectations of performance.

 

And the base date of build relates to what when doing aftermarket customized build work?

If I refit a 2016 year manufactured engine I custom built into a 400+ HP high efficiency torque monster into my 1952 IH L110 pickup is that engine now a 1952 model and subject to the efficiencies and operating characteristics of the ~120 BHP I6 engine that pickup came with or is it still going to operate and function as a custom built and modified 40 HP 2016 production engine?

My point is when something is rebuilt and modified for whatever parameters were chosen during the rebuild and refit into any vehicle of any age none of it conforms to the standard baseline specs of either units original design afterwards.

That Ford 460CI V8 I have came from a 1977 Mercury Grand marquis Brougham but after the rebuild it has absolutely nothing in common with what it was built as (low compression 197 HP and 353 Ft/lbs torque smog compliant engine ) other than being the same block, crankshaft, connecting rods and distributor body . Everything else was new aftermarket components and had no relevant comparison to any common stock factory engines of any time period.

That's how I see removing emissions system components and changing fuel and engine control parameters. What I get afterwards is not the same as the stock design and thusly not to be held to the same base expectations of performance.

1895. Belongs in the Smithsonian.

 

There is much sooth in this little statement that it bears repeating.

I hear you and I see it, but I'm not clear on what each side wants that the other thinks is so bad.
Help me here with a couple of examples.

 

1895. Belongs in the Smithsonian.

I see the typo Nazis are out in force as of lately.

Seems how common fat fingering a keyboard happens to all of us and this common issue that comes from it has already been forgotten. http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/t...ms-what-why-how-and-by-whos-authority.127605/

 

And what percentage of vehicles on the road do those newest models with those CVT's and 9 and 10 speed automatics make?

That should be pretty obvious as to what percentage or every vehicle in use they present and it's clearly not the majority. I'm guessing as of today it's measurable as fractions of a percent of the ~253 million registered vehicles currently in active use.

Just because something has been made doesn't immediately make it the majority let alone active encompassing standard in use.

I mean if it does since there are million dollar plus super cars out there that some people do own and drive does that by default make the majority of the vehicles on the roads also milion dollar plus super cars too?

BTW the average age of vehicles on the road today is ~11.5 years so my '10 year old data references' is actually very much up to date and valid.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ave...4.69i57j0l5.9548j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Why do you bring AVERAGES into the argument? @crutschow clearly said "TODAY's" vehicles. I could understand that you attempt to make yourself sound right if we were discussing this verbally where we cannot confirm the previous claims but in this forum, EVERYTHING IS WRITTEN in previous posts. We have a record of it.

And of course the efficiency of those old polluting engines was really great, with 14MPG about the norm for the 200HP V8's.
Not like those inefficient, clean burning clunkers today that generate 250HP or more while getting 25MPG.

 

Wow, I'd like to be your personal mechanic. No offense meant, but maybe when you go into a dealership for maintenance on your vehicles, you shouldn't talk like you type in the forum. They see dollar signs if you do.

Shortbus HP can say exact details but it's cuz if you let plenum warp too much coolant leaks into intake and jams motor cuz of hydrolock so since plenum takes less time to install than new motor she just does it like quarterly as preventative maintenance I think there's something else too so @Hypatia's Protege can tell you all that