Arduino PLC is a real thing now

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,875
I worked in the UL Santa Clara Labs, and think I have a reasonable perspective of wording of their standards. This standard, like many of those for electrical utilization equipment, is primarily focused on product safety, not performance.
In general terms, we used to explain to clients "This isn't Better Homes and Gardens, we test your appliance to help assure that when used as directed it won't burn down the house or electrocute someone, even if it burns the toast or sounds crummy when playing music".
Over the years since I left, they have begun to test to some performance standards, such as for network cabling, but are generally very clear about incorporation of TIA or IEC standards into their own.
As for dislike of Arduino, or similar microcontrollers, I use them frequently in applications where they are not exposed to extreme temperature or EMI.
PLCs are often in cabinets at elevated temperatures and near devices that generate significant conducted and radiated Electromagnetic Fields. That is why I raised the question about certification against industry recognized performance specifications.
Since I don't know where Automation Direct sources their present PLC offering (they seem to have broken off with Fanuc as their PLC supplier years ago) it was an honest question.
Cheers,
David
My apologies; unfortunate aspect of talking across the interet, you don't know who you're talking to, what their qualifications are. I assumed you were a layperson to the same extent as myself. I will accept & reflect your skepticism of the EMI susceptibility. It would be worthwhile to test that once I have the unit in hand. What would you suggest as a proper test? Maybe I could coil the torch lead of my plasma cutter around it while I cut some metal?

I can appreciate your concern about EMI susceptibility as, last time I used an arduino I was plagued with problems as a result of leaving some of the inputs floating. Unexpected operation of the outputs just from waving my hand near the arduino or making funny faces at it (only loose correlation on that last bit). It is worthwhile to note however, that in place of those finicky onboard I/Os, in this case a proven hardened industrial I/O is used. Also the processor is installed in a metal enclosure. While there might not be any documentation of EMI rejection (at least none that I (or you, maybe) would recognize), I am optimistic.

Note also the video I posted, demonstrating temperature testing. The only valid concern I recognize here is the EMI, and I intend to test that myself.
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,893
Not really sure of the point being made?
Just the last megasize CNC I brewed previous year was many meters long and kept more than 1 kW encarver for making a large sized vacuum forming acylic-resin forms. Even with so much power the speed for having more or less appropriate quality of surface was hours and hours long. Its difficult for me to realize that exists a processes in which its stays contrary. But probably... maybe laser cutting in between. So, I am not criticizing, just wonder for what is new for me.
But You must joking telling that 4046 is too slow for that task, if only You are not pushing to launch a space rockets with means of CNC tracktor??

By the way, today I heard a brilliant brainshaker - ""You know, the life itself is wonderful and beautiful. But let it be seen, one must wonder and experience the beauty.""
 
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Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,893
Note to Strantor ideas - Yes, similarly with me, I know at least two very professional factories using a multitude of CNC systems. Both have the similar problem where I was invited to find the reason - simply time by time their system in one certain work-hall are becoming mad - all instruments trying to hit one each another etc. Look like a battlefield. Both places I indicated high-voltage power lines going so near outside as 10 or 20 meters afar and my EMI tester shown about 10 kV per meter at 50 Hz EMI surplus some 2-5 W/m2 microwave component. As soon the hardest measures was made to ecranate the CNC driving electronics, the problem was solved. Thus the dry rest is the fact, the CNC computer plus controller plus drivers plus smps as the complex ir VERY well injurable by excessive EMI.
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,875
Just the last megasize CNC I brewed previous year was many meters long and kept more than 1 kW encarver for making a large sized vacuum forming acylic-resin forms. Even with so much power the speed for having more or less appropriate quality of surface was hours and hours long. Its difficult for me to realize that exists a processes in which its stays contrary. But probably... maybe laser cutting in between. So, I am not criticizing, just wonder for what is new for me.
But You must joking telling that 4046 is too slow for that task, if only You are not pushing to launch a space rockets with means of CNC tracktor??

By the way, today I heard a brilliant brainshaker - ""You know, the life itself is wonderful and beautiful. But let it be seen, one must wonder and experience the beauty.""
What are the details of this CNC? Is it windows? Running Mach3/4? External motion controller?

Neither a PLC nor Arduino are burdened with an operating system (at least not as most of us think of an operating system). They devote all of their processing power to running the program you download to them. Just think how fast your computer could be, if it didn't have to run all these hundreds or thousands of background processes in addition to the ONE process you cared about. For this reason they are also more stable. No blue screen of death. No freezing. No spinny wheel of contemplation. Just results.
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
30,759
But You must joking telling that 4046 is too slow for that task, if only You are not pushing to launch a space rockets with means of CNC tracktor??
You obviously mistook points made in my post, I did not even mention a "4046"?
My point was that you do not need super high speed in a Industrial PLC, as shown by the data table/scan update time of typical industrial PLC.
Max.
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,893
1) Aah, that was accurately my point, Max. Means I must not to go schooling by anew. :)

2) Strantor: I am trying as much as possible to use a LinuxCNC on the Ubuntu machines (by the way it allows to use at least with sth good the older generation machines), as the lost step (what is unavoidable for any Win machine) may result in catastrophy at most of proffesional grade applications. But that factories, both used Win.

As known very well, the Win has priority of own interruptions over executed program priorities. Just if machine needs, it ignores few steps irreversibly. Linux have diametrally contrary, all inner services are made when the executed program was released. First I met this making a large optical telescope (1,5 meter) star motion keeping system. Just whilst an exposition is going on, the coordinates become to jump back irregularly. After comprehensive reading what other do, we reinstalled Ubuntu and it works until now just ideally.
 
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Arduino and PLC??? Have an opinion the PLC is sth needed for near the MHz or even faster, but Atmel 328 have no more than 16 MHz with bipolar Vcc or 8 MHz at unipolar 3V3 regime. Thus the sistem is at least order of magnitude too slow for be implemented for any imaginable practical task. The more cooect tablets are 4046 or some cases even better the 567 (LM, XR, XR etc).
Our CNC punch press runs on Apple II PC
 

noweare

Joined Jun 30, 2017
115
There's a microprocessor or microcontroller at the bottom of a PLC. What makes a PLC is all the add-ons for protecting that chip.
 
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