To a realist or pragmatist, morals are just mental illness on parade.

I'm going to have to stop calling myself a pragmatist if it means I don't have any morals.

 

They died because of my actions and theirs and both were not INTENTIONAL.

So you get into your vehicle and drive without willingly wanting to do so? Some sort of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder I take it?

The bear obviously had no intention on killing him that day, if he had I doubt he would be posing with dead animal.
My house is made from 90% brick and mortar other 10% is wood and it's from planted forests.
I never got an infection from a bug or animal,most of them were from humans. I guess I should start killing humans now?

Pick and chose your justifications all you want for being a killer . The bear hunter has the same right to do so as well and at least he owns up to it without making excuses to absolve himself of his actions.

 

He is obviously a trophy hunter there is no honor or necessity in that. I guess you are fine with poaching too.

 

I'm going to have to stop calling myself a pragmatist if it means I don't have any morals.

Personally, I have found that once you let go of the concept of morals you no longer feel bad about what anyone calls you.

Heck once you reach that level you can even break into someone's home and hold them at knifepoint right in their bed and ask them what they think of you. All sorts of good things come to their mind then!

(Always seems kinda odd how they can come up with all those nice things to say then that somehow escapes their mind in the middle of the day. Oh well, praise is praise whenever it comes out I guess. )

 

He is obviously a trophy hunter there is no honor or necessity in that. I guess you are fine with poaching too.

Not really. I prefer my eggs scrambled or in an omelet.

 

Yes I'm okay with killing the good and bad bacteria after all they are part of my ecosystem.

So if the hunter was aiming at that nasty bacteria behind the bear, it would have been OK for that good bear to be killed?

I think your "justifications" sound thinner and thinner,

 

It wouldn't since those bacteria didn't do any harm to him nor are they living of his resources. We can play like this all day long.

 

The bear obviously had no intention on killing him that day

I'm sure you were there that day to read the bear's mind so you are so sure of that,

Sounds like here is your bottom line:

1) it is OK to kill something if it is to harm you. What about a lion charging at you? Is it OK to kill the lion?
2) it is OK to kill something indirectly. Again, sounds like depriving animals of their habitat and to kill them without bloodying your hand is OK.
3) it is OK to kill something if it is part of your ecosystem. Since the bear is part of the hunter's ecosystem, what's your fuzzing about here? Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if you have a unique definition of "ecosystem".
4) it is OK to kill knowingly as long as it is unintentional. A difference without distinction?

I'm pretty sure multitudes of people would be happy to condemn your criteria for killing something.

 

So if the hunter was aiming at that nasty bacteria behind the bear, it would have been OK for that good bear to be killed?

I think your "justifications" sound thinner and thinner,

Kinda what I'm getting as well. Seems like personal preference and justification is being used as a moral standard.

Either you are a killer and accept that the death of other living organisms is part of your willingness to live or you're a liar.


Personally, I'm alive and things will die because of it. I have no problem accepting that.

The how and why of those deaths is purely semantics. Morals and ethics have nothing to do with it.

 

We can play like this all day long.

Sounds very cowardly.

The hunter at least had the guts to show the world his game. You were only good at hiding behind your word game.

 

I'm sure you were there that day to read the bear's mind so you are so sure of that,

Sounds like here is your bottom line:

1) it is OK to kill something if it is to harm you. What about a lion charging at you? Is it OK to kill the lion?
2) it is OK to kill something indirectly. Again, sounds like depriving animals of their habitat and to kill them without bloodying your hand is OK.
3) it is OK to kill something if it is part of your ecosystem. Since the bear is part of the hunter's ecosystem, what's your fuzzing about here? Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if you have a unique definition of "ecosystem".
4) it is OK to kill knowingly as long as it is unintentional. A difference without distinction?

I'm pretty sure multitudes of people would be happy to condemn your criteria for killing something.

1) it is OK to kill something if it is to harm you. What about a lion charging at you? Is it OK to kill the lion? Yes
2) it is OK to kill something indirectly. Again, sounds like depriving animals of their habitat and to kill them without bloodying your hand is OK. No, do I enjoy doing it?No, but he obvisuly does.
3) it is OK to kill something if it is part of your ecosystem. Since the bear is part of the hunter's ecosystem, what's your fuzzing about here? Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if you have a unique definition of "ecosystem". I doubt that bear is part of hunters ecosystem, the hunter is from USA and had no impact on his other than ending it in a cowardly way.
4) it is OK to kill knowingly as long as it is unintentional. A difference without distinction? You cant kill knowingly and call it unintentional. I doubt that you know that a deer is going to jump in front of your car so you can kill it knowingly.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/books/booksandaut...r-a-true-story-of-vengeance-and-survival.html

it is all true... enjoy hunting

there is something wrong with anyone who wants to kill bear, they are just like people. Ever seen a curious grizzly cub stand up on its legs to look around? You would kill that for sport? Food when there is no necessity?

I live in an area where people hunt, better yet, natives started to hunt bear also, they seem to have forgotten their own teachings...

 

What about a lion charging at you? Is it OK to kill the lion? Yes

Sorry, that lion was only trying to scare you off. Bad you.

 

You cant kill knowingly and call it unintentional.

So if I burned down your house to kill that snake there. Your being the collateral damage.

That's OK, right?

You are eager to apply a high moral standard on others but very reluctant to live by the same set of rules you have imposed onto others.

 

We can play like this all day long.

No need to. Your double standards are clearly defined now.

He kills one thing in a way that takes considerable skill and ability above and beyond that of any of us and calls it sport and its bad.

You kill and maim indiscriminately to the point of not even thinking about it then pass it off with weak justification that it's not your fault while admonishing the sports guy and everyone else who owns up to his/their actions.

I got nothing more to say here.

 

So if I burned down your house to kill that snake there. Your being the collateral damage.

That's OK, right?

You are eager to apply a high moral standard on others but very reluctant to live by the same set of rules you have imposed onto others.

Shifting the blame on me wont contribute to the topic which is about guy killing a bear. Trying to justify trophy hunting with indirect impact of human society on animal population doesn't really fix the problem. He killed the bear intentionally, generally average human doesn't intentionally harm living beings and feel happy about it. Trying to equalize my indirect impact on animal lives with impact of trophy hunters wont make you win an argument simply because he is impacting them both directly and indirectly.

To have something called sport you need to have both sides competing not just one. As you justify trophy hunting by calling it sport which it isn't, I don't see people shooting at pigeons during the Olympic games.
I guess you are fine with being invited to a diner just to get killed behind you back by a person that called you in the first place, that's whats he doing and you consider it a sport.

 

I'm going to have to stop calling myself a pragmatist if it means I don't have any morals.

I didn't want to soften the statement, but of course there is room for some middle ground. I'm a fan of moral behavior, but to me "morals" are based on thousands of years of human experience that our ancestors have handed down to us in our culture and religions. Something made up one afternoon by one person doesn't rise to that level. It degrades the very meaning of the word, "moral".

Were our ancestors that hunted various large mammals to extinction "immoral" for feeding their families by hunting those animals? No. They may have been ignorant of how they were destroying their own future, but they weren't immoral in doing it.

As I said earlier, the useful conversation is where do we draw the lines for our modern society. I don't think hunting even comes close to the worst things we do to animals. We're in almost unanimous agreement that torturing animals for fun and profit (dog and chicken fighting, for instance) is abhorrent and it's illegal in most places. We fear animal abusers because they are so often psychopaths that are a genuine danger to all of us. I am not afraid of the guy that killed a bear with a spear.

Look at how our animal shelters fill with puppies and kittens that have but one fate. All because of easily avoidable human behavior. It's sickening.

 

To have something called sport you need to have both sides competing not just one.

Nope. Wrong again!
=======================
sport
spôrt/
noun

1. 1.
   an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
   "team sports such as baseball and soccer"
   synonyms: (competitive) game(s), physical recreation, physical activity, physical exercise,

===============

1 sport /ˈspoɚt/ noun
plural sports
Learner's definition of SPORT
1

a [count] : a contest or game in which people do certain physical activities according to a specific set of rules and compete against each other

• My favorite (competitive) sports are tennis and volleyball.
• the sport of boxing
• Do you play a sport? = Do you play any sports?
• Baseball is a team sport. [=a sport played by teams]

— often used in the plural especially in U.S. English to refer to sports in a general way

• My brother likes sports. [=he enjoys playing and/or watching games such as football, baseball, basketball, golf, etc.]
• I like watching sports on TV.
• She likes to play sports.

— see also spectator sport, winter sport
b [noncount] British : sports in general

• He's not interested in sport. [=(US) sports]
• She likes to play sport.

2

: a physical activity (such as hunting, fishing, running, swimming, etc.) that is done for enjoyment
[count]

• Ice-skating with friends is my favorite sport.

[noncount]

• He hunts and fishes for sport. [=he hunts and fishes because he enjoys it and not as a job or because he needs food for survival]

— see also blood sport
3
[count]
a — used with good, bad, etc., to say if someone has behaved politely or not after losing a game or contest

• He lost but he was a good sport about it. [=he was not rude or angry about losing]
• Don't be a poor/bad sport. [=don't be angry or rude if you lose]

b informal + old-fashioned : someone who is kind or generous

• Be a (good) sport and let him play with you.

c informal + old-fashioned — used as a friendly way to address someone (especially a man)

• See you later, sport.
• Hey, sport [=buddy]. Can you tell me where the nearest gas station is?

in sport
somewhat formal + old-fashioned

: in a joking way : in a way that is not serious

• Don't take offense. I was only saying it in sport. [=in fun]

make sport of
somewhat formal + old-fashioned

: to laugh at and make jokes about (someone or something) in an unkind way

• They made sport of [=made fun of] the way he talked.

2 sport /ˈspoɚt/ adjective
Learner's definition of SPORT
always used before a noun
1

: done for enjoyment rather than as a job or for food for survival

• sport fishing/hunting

2

chiefly US : participating in an activity (such as hunting or fishing) for enjoyment rather than as a job or for food for survival

• a sport fisherman

======================================================



Personally, my favorite sport is troll hunting.

 

And do these principled people eschew candles and soap and glue and the many, many other everyday products that are made with animal byproducts? Or do they at least insist on only buying products that are certified free of such byproducts?

What century do you live in?

Could you point out some of those products for me. What brand of adhesive to I pick up at Home Depot that have boiled Horse hooves on the ingredient list.

Which soaps brands to I look for a Target to get the soaponified animal fatty acids. To quote a well known member on this site...

I would love to see something that substantiates that...

 

What century do you live in?

Could you point out some of those products for me. What brand of adhesive to I pick up at Home Depot that have boiled Horse hooves on the ingredient list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_glue
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoof_glue

and maybe "Gorilla Glue".