I really wasn't trying to discourage, just thought you could buy a replacement where you live. Many people come here thinking something like this can be done cheaper than buying a new OEM part, not always the case, good luck with your project. And please keep us informed on how you do.

No worries, my apologies if I took it the wrong way. I can understand that. Although the very first thing I did was call the dealership and get a replacement part quoted, the second was looking online. Prices online aren't bad, but shippining often exceeds the actual parts price.

It should be safe to run headlights at idle direct from lighting coil, while designing regulator. Orange/yellow it looks like.

I would expect that too, but the reading on the healight's wire was a solid 30volts AC once I unplugged the regulator, which is odd, because it doesn't look like it should be, according to the diagram. Unless that's the full output from the lighting coil, which seems a bit excessive. I'll take proper readings from the individual coils when I go home the weekend.

 

It's also a sealed unit.

Ah yes. Very important to make them un-repairable.
When you finish this one we'll try to find you some chemical concrete to pour in it.

 

No worries, my apologies if I took it the wrong way. I can understand that. Although the very first thing I did was call the dealership and get a replacement part quoted, the second was looking online. Prices online aren't bad, but shippining often exceeds the actual parts price.


I would expect that too, but the reading on the healight's wire was a solid 30volts AC once I unplugged the regulator, which is odd, because it doesn't look like it should be, according to the diagram. Unless that's the full output from the lighting coil, which seems a bit excessive. I'll take proper readings from the individual coils when I go home the weekend.

That may be ok. It's hard to believe it can deliver too much power at idle speed. Open circuit won't give a valid reading. Do you have a sacrificial lamp or other load to test under load? Power output is generally pretty balanced on the ac lighting. Lights being pretty dim at low idle.
Dumping only a small amount at high speed.

 

Yes, please. Measure the voltage with the normal loads attached. Measure the current the loads use. That will give a clue about how much power is available.

I am especially curious about the voltages on white and yellow at 2 or 3 different RPM's like idle, 2500, 3500

 

That may be ok. It's hard to believe it can deliver too much power at idle speed. Open circuit won't give a valid reading. Do you have a sacrificial lamp or other load to test under load? Power output is generally pretty balanced on the ac lighting. Lights being pretty dim at low idle.
Dumping only a small amount at high speed.

Yes, please. Measure the voltage with the normal loads attached. Measure the current the loads use. That will give a clue about how much power is available.

Alright, I'll be sure to measure the voltage and current on each coil at idle, and if there's much difference at a higher rpm. Then I'll attach a lamp and measure the voltage and current over the lamp.
The voltage on the headlight increases significantly(x10) when the regulator is unplugged, although because it doesn't output anything, I'm not exactly sure what it's doing with it, so it's probably not a reliable load.

 

The regulator is supposed to output current into the ground wire, not a voltage.
By dumping that current, it loads down the magneto to a reasonable voltage.
That, "reasonable" voltage goes to the battery.

 

The regulator may be shorted. If you can apply a current limited supply from lighting coil input wire to ground it should start shunting at some point. The diode test on a meter may be enough to show short.
Shunting only one half wave may not be enough.
I built something similar once. Found this, but not sure it's related. It was for an automated sign that kept low voltages from getting to motors. Had to be bi-directional as dc motors were matrixed to save wire..

 

I can see how to do the thermodynamics. It's going to require a slab of aluminum, and some air flow won't hurt at all!

I don't know how to do this with an SCR. If I fire it on the rising voltage, it will dump the whole rest of the current. Got link?

I told you how the SCR works in my post - they're included in the bridge rectifier and only see AC current.

3-phase alternators are the most popular. Some are variable field, others are permanent magnet and regulation is done by the 3 bottom rectifiers in the 3-PH bridge being SCRs.

Some older models had single phase alternator, the rectifier and regulator were separate modules. The regulator module contained an SCR, a Zener and a few resistors - the SCR simply shorted one AC arm of the bridge rectifier to chassis. The stator had 6 poles, there were 3 sets of windings, each shared over 2 poles. 2 of the windings were in parallel and only switched in when the lights were on.

 

It should be safe to run headlights at idle direct from lighting coil, while designing regulator. Orange/yellow it looks like.

The generator is probably somewhere near 130 - 150W - the headlamp is probably a 55/60W H4.

 

The regulator may be shorted. If you can apply a current limited supply from lighting coil input wire to ground it should start shunting at some point. The diode test on a meter may be enough to show short.
Shunting only one half wave may not be enough.
I built something similar once. Found this, but not sure it's related. It was for an automated sign that kept low voltages from getting to motors. Had to be bi-directional as dc motors were matrixed to save wire..

The old Lucas system used a 100W 15V zener on a finned heatsink usually mounted in the air flow just under the headlamp.

Modern generators are usually higher power, so you'd probably have to parallel a couple of Zeners. The Lucas ones were positive earth, but insulator washer kits aren't difficult, and its probably easier to get a Zener that suits negative earth anyway.

 

The regular modern motorcycle alternator is usually a three phase wired stator, and the rotor is permanent magnets mounted to the crankshaft and spins around the stator. Don't know about this model though, it could be different.

The 3-phase alternator has probably become the most popular - but single phase were once all there was.

Many of the better quality models have a field coil just like a car alternator.

A flywheel generator was mentioned - I don't know how much those differ from regular alternators from a regulation point of view. The stator is called by some makes; "the spider". Its enclosed by a flywheel drum that has the magnets on the inside diameter.

 

I may have missed it but, so far no one mentioned any type of 'cut out' that dumps all of the alternator output when the light is off and the battery is fully charged. Without this the battery will boil off the electrolyte, ruining the battery. This is a problem also in motors in riding lawn mowers.

 

A flywheel generator was mentioned - I don't know how much those differ from regular alternators from a regulation point of view. The stator is called by some makes; "the spider". Its enclosed by a flywheel drum that has the magnets on the inside diameter

This is what I was referring to as a 'flywheel' alternator. Didn't know that any of them used anything other than permanent magnets.

 

I may have missed it but, so far no one mentioned any type of 'cut out' that dumps all of the alternator output when the light is off and the battery is fully charged. Without this the battery will boil off the electrolyte, ruining the battery. This is a problem also in motors in riding lawn mowers.

I might have missed some posts too.
This system uses ac from a separate coil for headlight. Another coil is for charging battery.
The ones I've worked on have just enough output at idle for headlight.
Check out the diagram in first post. Very nicely done with colors for each circuit.

 

I might have missed some posts too.
This system uses ac from a separate coil for headlight. Another coil is for charging battery.
The ones I've worked on have just enough output at idle for headlight.
Check out the diagram in first post. Very nicely done with colors for each circuit.

Haven't checked to see what this model of bike is sold as, on or off road. The usual thing, at least around here, is to take off the lights and horn with a off road bike. They are only added weight. The manufacture only puts them on to meet the lowest government standard so they can be sold to the public.

 

Haven't checked to see what this model of bike is sold as, on or off road. The usual thing, at least around here, is to take off the lights and horn with a off road bike. They are only added weight. The manufacture only puts them on to meet the lowest government standard so they can be sold to the public.

It's a dual purpose bike, enduro. I'll be using in on and off road. For the onroad I'll need the lighting system to work, and to put the bike through roadworthy.

 

Looking at the diagram I posted in the first post. The rect/reg takes in input from two coils, the charging and lighting coil. Would this make it a two phase rect/reg, because of this?

I'll be able to post the readings by Saturday.

 

I may have missed it but, so far no one mentioned any type of 'cut out' that dumps all of the alternator output when the light is off and the battery is fully charged. Without this the battery will boil off the electrolyte, ruining the battery. This is a problem also in motors in riding lawn mowers.

The Lucas Zener I mentioned, skims off the top when the battery is full - but needs plenty of air flow to keep it cool.

In 3-PH bridge rectifiers (that I mentioned) the 3 bottom rectifiers are SCRs - they effectively short out the alternator to prevent overcharging.

Most alternators approximate quite well to current sources - I don't know about the "spider" type in flywheel generators.

Current levels out at high RPM because of inductive reactance as frequency rises - I'd assume they all lend well to some form of shunt regulation.

 

Looking at the diagram I posted in the first post. The rect/reg takes in input from two coils, the charging and lighting coil. Would this make it a two phase rect/reg, because of this?

I'll be able to post the readings by Saturday.

No, there are two parts of the regulator. One coil for charging with pass regulator. One coil for ac lighting with shunt regulator. IMO

 

Some reading and even a couple of DIY regulators; https://www.google.com/search?q=understanding+motorcycle+voltage+regulators&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8