Will you please describe in terms that are unambiguous the difference of which you are so certain? For example, is a statement, such as, " I hate spinach," hate speech?

John

That's asking quite a lot. "What is hate" is just about as difficult as, "What is love". To make it even more difficult, there are now Laws defining, "hate". For instance, if a drunk mistakes me for his wife and throws a sugared pastry in my face, it is now a Hate Crime because I'm half Danish.

Danish roll, get it?

 

Backing away quietly from any comment concerning religion.

Life is good

 

Yes, it is, isn't it.

 

#12, if you do something really good, should we call you a "Great Dane".

 

The primary purpose of "hate speech" is to make the intended victim feel as though he or she is not part of the same group the as the speaker. It goes further and implies that there is a whole group of "others" that are inferior, less human, and or damned with respect to the "us" defined by the speaker. I may have a hard time defining it, but I know it when I see it and when I hear it. It simply has no place on this international forum. Any member who harbors such views is more then welcome to keep those views to themselves. I have not the slightest interest in your expression of those views. The internet has plenty of places for you to vent your spleen and spew you bile.

In addition, I'm assuming that the owner's continue to support the moderation team in promulgating this policy. If that is not the case then they need to articulate what the new policy is. I don't mean to imply that an actual change has taken place. I just want to know if one does.

 

The word for hate speech in Icelandic would directly translate back to English as "hate propaganda"

The easiest way to identify it on the internet is by replying to some hate propaganda against any group of people with "You sir/madam are an idiot"
Most likely the response will be along the lines of you not recognizing their rights to free speech while all you did was exercising your rights to free speech as well and a loop starts to form.

 

"You sir/madam are an idiot"

Worst choice of words in a transgender thread ever Hope you don't take it the wrong way Wendy

 

Enjoyed you as Bill_Marsden, can't see any reason not to enjoy you as Wendy. You are you and it really doesn't get any simpler. What matters is you seem a happier person and that is all that matters. I wish you nothing but the best Wendy.

Ron

 

And try reading Matthew 7:1-3.

It's not your place to judge anyone.

But thats the very core that most every religion is based on. Be like us of be damned by us and our judgements so says our god..

Religion and I got off to a bad start. I was about 7 or 8 years old when my sister dragged me into, "Sunday School" where they told me I was such a bad person that I was already condemned to damnation for all eternity if I did not something something something. I didn't believe them.

DOH... Same here. After being dragged to church and ran through sunday school for a few years of being surrounded by the worst hypocrites I had and have ever seen at that same age range I decided to declare myself atheist and stayed that way until my early 20's when I came to be friends with people of real moral standings and live styles.

As with you from my early ears I also figured that if I am damned just for being alive I might as well snub the being and those who follow him and enjoy my life to the fullest so that my punishment in the afterlife would be for actually doing wrong things in life. Sort of make my crimes fit the punishment reasoning.

 

That's asking quite a lot. "What is hate" is just about as difficult as, "What is love". To make it even more difficult, there are now Laws defining, "hate".

As I tell my daughter love is that stuff you give when you are either too poor, lack the creativity, or are just too cheap to give anything tangible as appreciation to a person you care about.

And hate is that stuff mom gives me when I tell you stuff like that.

 

I also figured that if I am damned just for being alive I might as well snub the being and those who follow him and enjoy my life to the fullest so that my punishment in the afterlife would be for actually doing wrong things

In for a penny, in for a pound? Not my choice, but I've known somebody like that. Craziest woman I ever kicked to the curb!

Maybe that's why I like you. I recognize which is your form of insanity, and I'm chronically grateful that I don't have to live with you.

 

Damn thing is people seem to just naturally like me anyway despite my best efforts to let my inner self shine through.

Animals like me. Kids like me and women who don't live with me like me too.

 

@Wendy The problem of course is that hate speech to one person is not hate speech to another. Who makes the decision? The voters? Certainly not. While "hate speech" itself is not a crime in the United States, it is in other Western democracies. Even in the US, it can be an aggravating factor in assigning criminal penalties with so-called "hate crimes." I find such laws extremely disturbing. Their effect at best is just superficial and temporary.

That is not to say that you do not have a right to be offended by the posts of that person. I saw them early in the AM before they were deleted. I thought they were over the top and intentionally offensive. I thought they should be deleted for that reason alone, and particularly because they were directed at you. That, though, does not make them hate speech in my mind.

My concern, to which DerStom8 has not replied, is the intolerance and demonization of opposing views that happens by labeling them "hate speech" as in his post #72. Recall the news report of the professor at the University of California Berkeley who attacked a student carrying a pro-life sign. Sure, maybe the professor found the opposing view offensive -- millions of others do not. However, her intolerance and demonization of that viewpoint and the student, her assault on the student, and her destruction of the sign constitute symbolic and real crimes of hate.

John

 

So you are saying that was not hate speech, just offensive. Sorry, I disagree.

It was offensive speech directed at me because of what I am. It was meant to hurt and harm with lies and false statements. It attributed to me characterstics that were not even close to true. Seems like hate to me. Maybe you read it differently.

Folks in my position are sensitive. You think the 31% successful suicide rate for untreated transgendered people is not a result of societal view then what is? Then there is th 42% attempt rate after. Then there is the 62% chance I will be assaulted or murdered because I am trans before I die. All of these numbers blow the general population out of the water.

Speech in this country is protected, as it should be. But don't sugar coat it because you don't feel the emotion. It is directed at me, how can I not notice?

Folks in my position are chronically under / un employed, again way beyond the national averages. Most folk, myself included, are let go for one reason or another from their jobs. Protections, if they exist (and they don't) because a savey employer can always find a reason other than the real one.

I knew this going in, I did the research. Death by my own hand or slow poison. Hate speech is targeted to a group, always. That is one way to tell.

 

I knew this going in, I did the research. Death by my own hand or slow poison. Thanks for caring.

Wendy, I don't know if you meant the underlined phrase sarcastically or not. Maybe it is my age, or maybe having attended to a parent dying with Alzheimer's, or maybe just my profession, but I have fewer reservations about suicide than abortion. At least with suicide, you are only ending the life of yourself. Johnny Carson quoted Gore Vidal's comment on one of his shows about Truman Capote's suicide as being "a good career move." (https://books.google.com/books?id=692KShjY_WIC&pg=PT315&lpg=PT315&dq=johnny+carson+says+truman+capote+suicide+good++career+move&source=bl&ots=6-x71rBEFn&sig=3HJjMoZEU0ip7_3bcGL1aA9K-EY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBWoVChMIv--tyLCaxwIVRhgeCh1enQaw#v=onepage&q=johnny carson says truman capote suicide good career move&f=false) That was comedy.

Do not get me wrong on this. Young people should never be allowed suicide for their problems. I do not believe for one second that you would qualify -- based on what I know about you over the years. You are too young in my mind. You needed to be treated so you did not have those thoughts. Being a drugged-up zombie was not an option. I hope your choice works out for you.

But, as people age and develop various infirmities, I think suicide may be the preferred option. The Swiss allow it. I know my mother would have wanted it.

John

 

My reasons for choosing life are still valid. About once a month I am bullied by people that think it is funny, sometimes more.

It must be socially acceptable, given no bystander says anything.

Then I am told that what I get online is merely offensive, not hate speech.

I am against political correctness. But it goes both ways, when you hear something hateful call it what it is, don't gloss over it.

I have offered to answer questions and to talk about it. That will only extend to this tread or PMs. I debated strongly with myself about coming out. You will note it was almost 3 years before I did.

What decided me was I want to sign my work. Anyone who can't handle me as I am has a personal problem, and it's not mine.

 

I'm still glad you're still with us and getting stronger each time someone slings an arrow at you.

 

I am naive, because I cannot understand the motivation of people who are hateful toward transgendered. In fact, I find it disturbing that such hatefulness exists!
In my experience, transgender is a normal day to day experience. I have worked with three women who used to be men. Two of them were direct reports. One I had to actively defend and assist in several incidents.
Why this had to occur in the first place is baffling to my temperament.
Bless you who have had to endure fools.

 

My reasons for choosing life are still valid. About once a month I am bullied by people that think it is funny, sometimes more.

It must be socially acceptable, given no bystander says anything.

Then I am told that what I get online is merely offensive, not hate speech.

I am against political correctness. But it goes both ways, when you hear something hateful call it what it is, don't gloss over it.

I have offered to answer questions and to talk about it. That will only extend to this tread or PMs. I debated strongly with myself about coming out. You will note it was almost 3 years before I did.

What decided me was I want to sign my work. Anyone who can't handle me as I am has a personal problem, and it's not mine.

Broken bones get stronger.

 

It must be socially acceptable, given no bystander says anything.

I think it has a lot to do with the local culture and those who set it than anything. Around here I doubt anyone of any social value and intelligence would ever get up in your face about it unless you were carrying on in a way that gave people reason to.

I know for a fact that if you were some stranger in a store or at the mall minding your own business and someone got after you for your changes I would be all over them in a second.
But if you were carrying on like some television drama Fairie shoving your life choices in everyones face it would be a whole different story and as with those who stand there and do nothing I would be right there with them feeling you rather brought it on yourself.

Transgender and just trying to fit in with society has my backing 100% 100% of the time. Acting like some super gay dumbass drama queen in public well not so much.