Good day everyone,

I have a very old 120v AC motor which came our of a winch. Motor has 4 wires and attached diagram. Could someone help me understand what this diagram says?
I did not take the motor housing apart but I am guessing it has centrifugal switch(??)




Thank you very much!

 

It shows an armature and a field connection. Need more information about the motor, it could be series wound or separately excited. I would suspect series wound based on experience with other winches but there isn't enough info to confirm. I doubt there is a centrifugal switch, and this drawing does not show one.

 

Are you sure it has an armature?
If so and it was used on AC, this indicates a Universal motor, i.e. the field is connected in series with the armature, 4 leads due to being a winch application where reversal is required.

 

Are you sure it has an armature?
If so and it was used on AC, this indicates a Universal motor, i.e. the field is connected in series with the armature, 4 leads due to being a winch application where reversal is required.

"A" and "F" terminology in reference to motors I have never known to mean anything other than Armature and Field.

I suspect you are correct about it being series wound, and series connection is the safest first step if unsure.

@SailCS33 series connection means connect one of the "A" wires to one of the "F" wires and then connect power to the remaining "A" and "F" wires. If the motor spins the wrong way, swap the "F" wires.

 

View attachment 288439



Thank you very much!

Where did you get this picture? It seems taken from the internet. Are you sure this is representative of your exact motor?

 

Where did you get this picture? It seems taken from the internet. Are you sure this is representative of your exact motor?

The picture is a snippet from the manual of that winch. here is the page of the circuit but I didnt want to complicate my question.

 

Seems to confirm a Universal, (series) connected motor, you do not see shunt field connected motors on AC .

 

@SailCS33 series connection means connect one of the "A" wires to one of the "F" wires and then connect power to the remaining "A" and "F" wires. If the motor spins the wrong way, swap the "F" wires.

Thank you! I realize now I forgot another question. The motor needs a capacitor (or at least that's what it had when it was inside the winch). Would it now go from the power white to the A?

 

It should not need a capacitor to run if it is a Universal motor, what was the value,?
Is that #55 in the DWG?
Another thing to be aware of if it is a Universal type, it operates in a run-away condition where the rpm is governed by load, if it is taken out of the winch and ran with zero load, it could over speed.

 

Thank you! I realize now I forgot another question. The motor needs a capacitor (or at least that's what it had when it was inside the winch). Would it now go from the power white to the A?

Can you post a picture of this capacitor? I don't see a capacitor in the drawing, and a universal motor should not have a capacitor.

With your mention of a centrifugal switch and now a capacitor, I question whether you have the correct drawing. Please post pictures of the actual motor, and capacitor, and whatever you think is a centrifugal switch.

I would hate for you to apply the advice given for a universal motor, to an induction motor, and burn it up.

Also note that the drawing (if it is the correct drawing) shows a rectifier which makes DC to open the brake. You will need to retain this if using the motor for other purposes. Trying to run the motor without powering the brake open is bad news.

 

It should not need a capacitor to run if it is a Universal motor, what was the value,?
Is that #55 in the DWG?
Another thing to be aware of if it is a Universal type, it operates in a run-away condition where the rpm is governed by load, if it is taken out of the winch and ran with zero load, it could over speed.

The #56 is the capacitor "assembly" which includes 47µF, 3.6Ohm(??) 5w resistor as well as two hefty diodes.
#55 is actually two 4ohm 25w resistors.

#56
white wire > capacitor + diode > black wire
white wire > resistor + diode > red wire

#56
The two 4ohm resistors in parallel..so 2Ohms?

 

Can you post a picture of this capacitor? I don't see a capacitor in the drawing, and a universal motor should not have a capacitor.

With your mention of a centrifugal switch and now a capacitor, I question whether you have the correct drawing. Please post pictures of the actual motor, and capacitor, and whatever you think is a centrifugal switch.

I would hate for you to apply the advice given for a universal motor, to an induction motor, and burn it up.

Also note that the drawing (if it is the correct drawing) shows a rectifier which makes DC to open the brake. You will need to retain this if using the motor for other purposes. Trying to run the motor without powering the brake open is bad news.

It will take me a day or so to take the motor housing apart. Will post pictures then.
I thought it had centrifugal switch because I thought this is what 2 of the 4 wires were. Please forgive my ignorance.
The capacitor is clearly marked 47 µF 250v

The rectifier for the brake I thought was an optional component because when the winch was operational it did not have a break electrical or mechanical.

 

From the mention of brake and bridge rect and caps etc, it sounds as though that would be the brake??
Unfortunately I am guessing there is no ladder/schematic style DWG?
It may take a bit to create one from the layout ver.
If you can see any brushes or com inside the motor, that would confirm Universal.

 

I think I figured out the purpose of the small capacitor and the resistor. I believe it is an arc preventer (snubber). Could it be?

 

I think I figured out the purpose of the small capacitor and the resistor. I believe it is an arc preventer (snubber). Could it be?

Yes I think that is the most likely scenario

 

If the TS can also post the circuit schematic diagram of the control box that will be far more useful than than the wiring diagram.
AND, if the motor has a tag on the outside that gives specifications , such as voltage and current, for the connections, that will be very helpful as well.
Two more considerations are, first, a winch motor is not likely to be a constant duty motor, and because of the need to prevent it from coasting it probably has dynamic braking as well as a separate mechanical brake. And it is probably a shunt type motor. A quick check with an ohm meter can reveal if that is the case.

 

And it is probably a shunt type motor. A quick check with an ohm meter can reveal if that is the case.

The ladder/schematic type DWG would be the best.
There is no AC fed shunt field motors, they are not electrically practical.

 

@SailCS33 Can you give the part No's off of/from items 54,56,55,52,57 ?
A schematic should be simple.

 

@SailCS33 Can you give the part No's off of/from items 54,56,55,52,57 ?
A schematic should be simple.

52 - 199AMX-13
54 - is just a 20AMP push button reset breaker
55 - is the two 4 Ohm 25w wire wound resistors in parallel
56 - is the capacitor "assembly" which includes 47µF, maybe 36 ohm 5w resistor as well as two hefty diodes (i cant see their ratings). The resistor is a YAGEO wirewound 5w360J which is not coming up when I search.
white wire > capacitor + diode > black wire
white wire > resistor + diode > red wire
57 - 199AX-13

 

I called MYTE winch in Indianapolis today to inquire about the motor. they believe the winch was made in 1979 They said it should have a universal motor.