Do you seriously regard traveling abroad for (IMO highly questionable) basic healthcare a viable alternative to 'the problem'?

I do! Ever been to Costa Rica? It's a lovely place to visit and its medical system is full of U.S. doctors treating U.S. patients. Both leave home for a variety of reasons but it basically comes down to avoiding U.S. government intervention into the market.

Get a vacation and a top notch treatment for less money than you could hope for at home. Why not?

Of course we'd all prefer to fix our system back home but there doesn't seem to be much appetite for that. Once power and control have been seized, it is rarely relinquished.

 

Of course we'd all prefer to fix our system back home but there doesn't seem to be much appetite for that. Once power and control have been seized, it is rarely relinquished

@wayneh and @tcmtech I totally agree it's uphill fight no matter what party's in charge but I say fixing domestic system is the only good solution cuz emergency care is a big part of healthcare and looking at travel folders with MI or neurological or acute appendicitis symptoms or whatever is no fun at all!

Just so you know, I totally believe in boycotting poorly administered services! But I say that's just not practical when there aren't any domestic alternatives for critical services available

 

Do you seriously regard traveling abroad for (IMO highly questionable) basic healthcare a viable alternative to 'the problem'? --- @tcmtech, my friend, you must have a lot of time on your hands!?

For many people our time is worth way less than the medical bills are. Especially when those bills start equaling or exceeding ones annual income for a fairly routine procedure.

As for "highly Questionable" it's a well known fact now that most of the US health care systems and facilities quality ratings are well below that of what can be purchased in other countries.

That dentist I saw in Turkey was better equipped than any US dentist I had ever seen and openly admitted that in the bigger Turkish cities his operation rated as good but on top end on technological capacity. He was quick , polite and didn't push me to have loads of frivolous testing and other work done just to confirm what he could plainly see with his own eyes. Same with the procedure. He was not going to make it into a moderate invasive surgery for something that could be done with standard dental tools.

Maybe you can shrug of a medical procedure that has a price tag in the 5 - 6 digit range but for most of us lower level peons anything that comes with a price tag that will take 6 months to a several years or more of our gross annual income to pay off is well worth leaving the country for.

I do! Ever been to Costa Rica? It's a lovely place to visit and its medical system is full of U.S. doctors treating U.S. patients. Both leave home for a variety of reasons but it basically comes down to avoiding U.S. government intervention into the market.

Get a vacation and a top notch treatment for less money than you could hope for at home. Why not?

Of course we'd all prefer to fix our system back home but there doesn't seem to be much appetite for that. Once power and control have been seized, it is rarely relinquished.

Exactly! Most of us would get our major work done here if we could afford it but for the majority we can not.

I can't name how many people I have met now who have went overseas for minor and major surgeries and medical procedures, including various cancer surgeries and treatments that came home fixed/cured and have stayed that way for years.

 

But I say that's just not practical when there aren't any domestic alternatives for critical services available

If I need any major emergency medical treatment I would probably call the family large animal vet and tell him I am a sheep or a pig given what sort of stuff I have seen him do with an injured animal lying in a field for a few hundred dollars and I can guarantee that compared the last visit I had to the emergency room he will get to me or me to him way faster too!

 

As for "highly Questionable" it's a well known fact now that most of the US health care systems and facilities quality ratings are well below that of what can be purchased in other countries.

But then many such studies/'statistics' are misleading for their 'apples and oranges' and otherwise 'slanted' assessment/sampling schemes -- please be mindful of the fact that answerability constitutes at least 80% of quality assurance - which being all but nonexistent as regards nonresident patients abroad... Thus it is that even the much maligned 'tort system' is with its advantages - but you didn't hear me say that!...

That dentist I saw in Turkey was better equipped than any US dentist I had ever seen and openly admitted that in the bigger Turkish cities his operation rated as good but on top end on technological capacity. He was quick , polite and didn't push me to have loads of frivolous testing and other work done just to confirm what he could plainly see with his own eyes. Same with the procedure. He was not going to make it into a moderate invasive surgery for something that could be done with standard dental tools.

A competent, conscientious, even intelligent *dentist*!? -- That must have been a positively surreal experience! --- Note to any US based dentists out there - You heard right! - I'm calling you out!

Exactly! Most of us would get our major work done here if we could afford it but for the majority we can not.

And that's precisely what must change! -- The fact that ability to pay 'factors into' availability of healthcare -at any level whatever- represents egregious violation of fundamental human rights as well as, perhaps, our nation's most significant embarrassment upon 'The World Stage'... -- That said, any scheme entailing 'rationing' or 'caps' is equally foul at best!

I can't name how many people I have met now who have went overseas for minor and major surgeries and medical procedures, including various cancer surgeries and treatments that came home fixed/cured and have stayed that way for years.

A happy ending is always a good thing! -- That said, ongoing wellness will most often require continuity of care...

To be clear -- It is not my intent to discourage people seeking affordable, quality healthcare abroad --- but, rather, to express my dismay at the fact that 'our' system is that 'broken'!

If I need any major emergency medical treatment I would probably call the family large animal vet and tell him I am a sheep or a pig given what sort of stuff I have seen him do with an injured animal lying in a field for a few hundred dollars and I can guarantee that compared the last visit I had to the emergency room he will get to me or me to him way faster too!

--Emphasis added--

Much as it pains me to admit it -- I hear ya!

Best regards
HP

PS -- Inasmuch as this discussion is drifting in a 'political' direction -- I suggest that we 'change course' now we've each had our say...K?

 

PS -- Inasmuch as this discussion is drifting in a 'political' direction -- I suggest that we 'change course' now we've each had our say...K?

The answer to the question is inherently a political answer. Changing course requires not answering.

 

PS -- Inasmuch as this discussion is drifting in a 'political' direction -- I suggest that we 'change course' now we've each had our say...K?

Says the lady who took it down the path.

One other question I've been wondering about. Why are you always 'yelling' in your posts?

 

One other question I've been wondering about. Why are you always 'yelling' in your posts?

Where do you see yelling? I only see speaking boldly and with emphasis which is not the same.

 

A competent, conscientious, even intelligent *dentist*!? -- That must have been a positively surreal experience!

AsI have come to understand it its a near world wide standard in medical practice all over the world now. Just not in the US.

FWIW, I have cousin who went into dentistry and I can say for certain she is one of the most condescending arrogant overpaid b!tches I have ever known. Wasn't that why as a kid but once she got her degree and a job , WOW, now the whole world is below her and her standards. Especially us 'poor cousins' who actually work honest jobs and treat people well and with respect to make a living.

I was still 'blue collar' trash to her when I was in the oil fields making ~ $100K a year in a tech job where I worked maybe 10% of my time I was out in the field.

 

FWIW, I have cousin who went into dentistry and I can say for certain she is one of the most condescending arrogant overpaid b!tches I have ever known.

My dentists have been quite nice but one thing I've noticed lately is the constant up-selling by the younger ones, especially the hygienists. I'm pretty sure that's become a standard part of their training. They look like kicked puppies when you decline to pay for all the stuff that insurance won't cover. They must be getting a percentage. They try to convince you how great treatment X is and I have to politely remind them that if it was really so great for avoiding future problems, the insurance company would make it mandatory. That usually shuts them up. The older dentists are more pragmatic and generally offer ways to save money, knowing that you're more likely to come back to someone you trust.

 

My dentists have been quite nice but one thing I've noticed lately is the constant up-selling by the younger ones, especially the hygienists. I'm pretty sure that's become a standard part of their training. They look like kicked puppies when you decline to pay for all the stuff that insurance won't cover. They must be getting a percentage. They try to convince you how great treatment X is and I have to politely remind them that if it was really so great for avoiding future problems, the insurance company would make it mandatory. That usually shuts them up. The older dentists are more pragmatic and generally offer ways to save money, knowing that you're more likely to come back to someone you trust.

My cousin is the same way. Super nice to anyone who is her customer because she gets her money from them but outside of work she's nothing like that. The blatant two faced personality doesn't sit well with me or most of my family hence why none of us use her for dental work. No discount for family or anything because it would cut into her kickbacks.

 

FWIW, I have cousin who went into dentistry and I can say for certain she is one of the most condescending arrogant overpaid b!tches I have ever known.

Wasted words! To wit: 'dentist' says it all! - and much, much, more!

Says the lady who took it down the path.

While I freely own my (in retrospect) injudicious broaching of labour unions It seems my blunder was without consequence...

One other question I've been wondering about. Why are you always 'yelling' in your posts?

Netiquette 101:
This is emphasizing
-- Whereas--
THIS IS YELLING

So... Kindly take 100 lines and remember to switch the lights off as you exit, young man!

The answer to the question is inherently a political answer. Changing course requires not answering.

I shouldn't have thought commentary upon the price/cost of medical devices/services and alternative sources thereof necessitated political debate? -- FWIW I do not feel this is a 'bicker' yet -- but that, of course, will change should 'healthcare reform' become the topic!

Very best regards
HP

 

Netiquette 101:
This is emphasizing
-- Whereas--
THIS IS YELLING

So... Kindly take 100 lines and remember to switch the lights off as you exit, young man!

And yet some members came down on a new member recently for the exact same thing when he cut and pasted an item from another site that was in emphasis. So I thought the "netiquette" had possibly changed.

 

And yet some members came down on a new member recently for the exact same thing when he cut and pasted an item from another site that was in emphasis. So I thought the "netiquette" had possibly changed.

Context, perhaps? -- @shortbus now you've got me all curious -- Hows about a link?

Best regards
HP

 

Netiquette 101:
This is emphasizing
-- Whereas--
THIS IS YELLING

And, for my $0.02, both are extremely annoying. I find the assault on the visual senses when different fonts, sizes, boldface, italics, and underlying are used to more than a tiny degree to be so off-putting that I generally completely ignore the post (and, yes, most of your posts fall directly into that category -- I went right past this post and only noticed it via a later response that had me come back looking for it). Clearly it's personal preference on my part, but I have no desire to read posts that look like stereotypical letters to the cops from a deranged serial killer (hmmm -- avatar with an axe -- hmmm).

 

I have no desire to read posts that look like stereotypical letters to the cops from a deranged serial killer (hmmm -- avatar with an axe -- hmmm).

-- Or, at very least, the frontpage of The Sun

But then such is merely by way of compensating for "textmode's" lack of verbal queues -- Thus it seems I'm over compensating
Well hey! - In my defense I've all but 'sworn off' 'underlining' (inasmuch as such tends to create the illusion of 'in-line links') --- Now I'm thinking 'large text' is best 'given a miss' as well (outside of safety warnings, etc)...

That said, I strongly feel that the demands of perspicuity require continued use of bolding and italics...

Best regards and many thanks for the feedback!
HP

 

I have no desire to read posts that look like stereotypical letters to the cops from a deranged serial killer (hmmm -- avatar with an axe -- hmmm).

That's funny! But it paints an appropriate picture.

I strongly feel that the demands of perspicuity require continued use of bolding and italics...

No argument from me on bolding or italics. Sometimes emphasis, or directing the reader's focus to the most important point, is exactly what's needed.

I have already argued that using four and five syllable words does not attain "perspicuity" when the average reader has to look up two or three words per sentence and choose among the dictionary definitions in hopes of divining the message.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/perspicuity
1. clarity, plainness, intelligibility. 2. transparency.

Sounding like you swallowed a dictionary does not come across as plain, intelligible, or transparent.

The carnival atmosphere (all those colored balloons floating everywhere) of your posts never bothered me, but such a prolific use of emoticons is unique (on this site) to you. Being unique is not a reason to change your behavior, but losing a portion of your audience is. IMHO, Please consider that argument.

 

There was a study that was published recently that was being discussed on one of the more center-of-the-road talk-radio programs a few weeks ago. It was about factors that result in someone being perceived as intelligent -- note that whether the factors actually indicate intelligence or not was beside the point, but merely what things tend to cause the person to be perceived as intelligent. Somewhat surprisingly, using big and/or obscure words was very near the top of the list of things that caused the opposite reaction. If I recall, the strongest single factor was when a person was able to discuss complex ideas using simple language. The use of big words tended to leave one of two impressions -- that the person really didn't know the topic and was just regurgitating big words by rote, or that the person was trying to show off their impressive vocabulary at the expense of effective communication. Neither left the audience with a high opinion of the person's intelligence.

 

Sounding like you swallowed a dictionary does not come across as plain, intelligible, or transparent.

but merely what things tend to cause the person to be perceived as intelligent. Somewhat surprisingly, using big and/or obscure words was very near the top of the list of things that caused the opposite reaction.

But then it's neither about my intellect nor appearance thereof -- it is, rather, about respect for the reader's intelligence! -- No amount of 'lexical shaming' will cause me to insult the readership with 'baby talk' here or elsewhere in life -- So nah!

that the person really didn't know the topic and was just regurgitating big words by rote, or that the person was trying to show off their impressive vocabulary at the expense of effective communication. Neither left the audience with a high opinion of the person's intelligence

Oh dear! I believe I've just been 'trolled' by a moderator! -- Oh well... I guess there's a first for everything - golly! golly!!

So... Aside from sincerely asserting that my usage is neither particularly 'obscure' (with the exception of occasional unexpanded brevity) nor unduly 'polysyllabic' - I'll refrain from 'biting'...

Best regards and TTFN
HP

PS -- I do see your points Re: textual 'flourishes' (i.e. overuse of formatting, etc) however...

 

I'm not trolling you -- just mentioning a recent report that I heard that I thought some might find interesting. To the best of my knowledge, the report was not referring to you specifically, but rather just general results from their research. And remember, the point of the research had nothing to do with whether the speaker actually was or was not intelligent, or whether they were or weren't trying to impress anyone, but merely looked at the impression that was made on their audience.