What to do next?

Thread Starter

Balan IC

Joined Nov 6, 2016
3
I know what AC and DC,powers in electrical circuits,Ohm's Law,Kirchoff's theorems and so on.I have base.
What to do next?
Thank you!
 

AlbertHall

Joined Jun 4, 2014
12,345
As a hobby look into whatever you are interested in. No-one can be expert at all the disciplines and some are particularly difficult without very expensive test equipment.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
34,283
You might take a look at the Textbooks tab at the top of this page and see if anything looks of interest to you.
A study of semiconductors might be a good next step.
 

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,389
I know what AC and DC,powers in electrical circuits,Ohm's Law,Kirchoff's theorems and so on.I have base.
What to do next?
Thank you!
Hi,

If you dont already know, a general analysis method for circuits would be very good to learn. A general method and widely used is called "Nodal Analysis". Not really too hard to learn as long as you have some math behind you like simultaneous equations.

That brings us to what kind of math have you had such as:
algebra
trigonometry
geometry
calculus
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
34,283
If you dont already know, a general analysis method for circuits would be very good to learn. A general method and widely used is called "Nodal Analysis".
That's probably an interesting thing to develop math skills but when is the last time you've used nodal analysis with simultaneous equations in an actual circuit that you built?
I think the only time I've ever used simultaneous equation, nodal analysis was in homework problems when I was in school.
I can think of no better way to kill an interest in electronics than that.:rolleyes:
 

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,389
That's probably an interesting thing to develop math skills but when is the last time you've used nodal analysis with simultaneous equations in an actual circuit that you built?
I think the only time I've ever used simultaneous equation, nodal analysis was in homework problems when I was in school.
I can think of no better way to kill an interest in electronics than that.:rolleyes:
Hi,

I can think of a lot of better ways :)

I guess you are one of those anti-math fanatics. I am just the opposite and have been using math since grammar school. These days i use calculus at least once a week, and Nodal about the same. There are people who have an interest in math and those who dont, but just because you dont i dont believe you should recommend that to others. Think of where the space program would be without math.

Nodal analysis isnt that hard to learn that's why i suggested that. You can learn a lot about circuits using Nodal analysis and can then start to understand circuits in general much better. A circuit simulator can help too but i believe some hand calculations should go along with that.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
34,283
I guess you are one of those anti-math fanatics.
Your assumption that I'm a "fanatic" is false. :).
I just don't "think" in mathematical terms as others, and apparently you, do.
Mathematics is a very useful tool and our understanding of the universe would be very limited without it. After all, essentially all the bizarre things about quantum mechanics are the result of mathematical predictions, and Maxwell used mathematics to predict the existence of radio waves and their speed of propagation over 15 years before they were generated and detected by Hertz.
It's just that a mathematical formula does not give me any real insight into how something works.
I can rotely grind through an equation to solve a problem but that generally doesn't help me much with understanding.
So if I can avoid complex math, I do.
I don't think I've solved more than a few simultaneous equations or used any significant amount of calculus since college.
I mainly relied upon basic arithmetic and algebra and, for lack of a better term, intuition about how circuits operate.

If the op has a liking for math, then delving into things like nodal analysis, etc. would be good to start.
If not, such things can be a real buzz kill.
It certainly was for me.
I seriously thought about getting out of engineering in my sophomore year when I realized that just about every engineering class was basically another variation of applied math.
But nothing else looking appealing so I ground my way through them (my overall GPA wasn't the best because of that).
And amazingly I still ended up having a fairly successful career in various aspects of circuit design engineering.
 
Last edited:

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
28,619
But nothing else looking appealing so I ground my way through them (my overall GPA wasn't the best because of the that).
And amazingly I still ended up having a fairly successful career in various aspects of circuit design engineering.
I once had a position where Electrical/Electronic engineering was required, I worked together with someone who had an engineering degree, we both performed the same duties and were paid the same.
But he had what I called a difficulty in conceptualizing when a design situation arose that required a final result. He found it very much easier if he could find a mathematical solution, Not saying he was not good at the job, just that I found we approached projects differently, he also had a job when it required trouble shooting a problem situation in a existing system.
Max.
 

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,389
Your assumption that I'm a "fanatic" is false. :).
I just don't "think" in mathematical terms as others, and apparently you, do.
Mathematics is a very useful tool and our understanding of the universe would be very limited without it. After all, essentially all the bizarre things about quantum mechanics are the result of mathematical predictions, and Maxwell used mathematics to predict the existence of radio waves and their speed of propagation over 15 years before they were generated and detected by Hertz.
It's just that a mathematical formula does not give me any real insight into how something works.
I can rotely grind through an equation to solve a problem but that generally doesn't help me much with understanding.
So if I can avoid complex math, I do.
I don't think I've solved more than a few simultaneous equations or used any significant amount of calculus since college.
I mainly relied upon basic arithmetic and algebra and, for lack of a better term, intuition about how circuits operate.

If the op has a liking for math, then delving into things like nodal analysis, etc. would be good to start.
If not, such things can be a real buzz kill.
It certainly was for me.
I seriously thought about getting out of engineering in my sophomore year when I realized that just about every engineering class was basically another variation of applied math.
But nothing else looking appealing so I ground my way through them (my overall GPA wasn't the best because of that).
And amazingly I still ended up having a fairly successful career in various aspects of circuit design engineering.
Hi again,

Well, i was just guessing based on what you had said previously, but you do bring up a good point here about how far you want to delve into 'complex' math. I think we all have our limits, and those limits come from what we have experienced in the past regarding circuits and math and even things about the universe itself.

I stress math a lot because i have seen what it can do, while intuition can fail. There is a good example on these issues because what we have been talking about has been talked about a lot in the past by some great thinkers including the late, great, Carl Sagan.

I dont remember all of the arguments, but one example of how intuition can fail is illustrated with a problem in prime numbers, where a given formula produces a large set of prime numbers so when compared to a previously constructed list it looks the same, but there is one catch: one and only one of those generated prime numbers is *NOT* a real prime number, but the rest are. This leads the user to believe that they are all prime numbers using intuition, because soooo many of them are correct. Each any every one of them has to be carefully checked to find out the truth however, but intuition tries to jump ahead and declare they are all the same.
Another example is found in the game of chess, where the position looks 'good' after a sequence of moves but really it's a lost game.
The usual response is the observer feels dumbfounded when the true result is revealed, "How can that be possible?", because to the intuition it looks different.

The short answer is that intuition is a heuristic and so will fail now and then. Math on the other hand, presents a more precise view. If we could work out each move in a game of chess mathematically, we would always make the best move, always. We would never make a mistake.
Of course in less straightforward situations we have to be very carefully how we apply the math, but there are theories that are based entirely on math that are already laid out before us so often we just have to know the theory.

The best point i can think of however is the way math and physics work together in a manner of speaking. Some physics would not even be possible without math, and trying to solve a 10 node circuit without math is just plain nuts.

Another secondary point is that math can be used as a simulation tool by itself, just like a software simulator. This leads to better intuition about the circuits.

Another point is that some theory is based entirely on math, and there is little or no intuition to be had because the solution must be based on a range of solutions which is shown 'best' by a special kind of state vector differential equation, which results in a very abstract concept yet has been proven to yield the best results for that kind of problem. One such application is in determining the stability of a boost converter based on an AC part of the response. Without math, it is not possible to find such a solution. More to the point, intuition does not know how to interpret such a solution in the way it usually does and therefore can not come up with a shortcut in this case.

But above all i dont think you will find any professor that would not state that learning the most math will get a person the farthest in any engineering field. So it means that the farther a person wants to go the more math they should learn. The beauty of it is when they see the math and the physics working so well together. Some equations we end up with are almost intuitive in themselves, where we see the various circuit concepts pop right out of the equations.

So i stress math, but the individual has to learn at their own pace, and when they choose to stop that's up to them. I have to say that they should never stop, but that's not up to me that's up to them.

You also have to realize that if you choose to stop too soon, there are some concepts of circuit theory you will never know. This applies to all of us though.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
34,283
Some equations we end up with are almost intuitive in themselves, where we see the various circuit concepts pop right out of the equations.
See, there's one of my problems.
I've never had an equation do that for me. o_O
Certainly I can understand what some of the equation are saying but I've never had a "pop".

For example, in school they I took one course that covered negative feedback intensively with all the equations covering loop gain, open-loop gain, closed-loop gain, gain stability, including the effects of finite amp gain, etc.
And I was able to do the equations by rote and pass the course.
But a basic (or intuitive) understanding of how it really work eluded me.
It wasn't until I started using opamps on my first job that I suddenly had my "eureka moment" and finally really understand how negative feedback works.
So the math certainly is needed to determine the response of a negative feedback circuit but it did little to help me understand its operation.

Don't get me wrong.
I think the more math anyone learns the better. It is the language of science and engineering and any engineering student needs to learn all the required math courses.
I'm only concerned that the complex math will discourage someone from pursuing an initial interest in electronics (as it almost did me), thinking that it's absolutely necessary to learn all that before they can delve into it.

And I certainly have had intuition fall me on occasion, when the circuit doesn't work like I thought it should.
But it's also helped me do designs that would have been difficult or impossible for me if I had approached them on a "math first" basis.
 

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,389
Hi again,

I see your point about math making circuits look more complicated and thus harder to learn.
I guess it all depends how this material is first introduced to a person, and how that person views the material as being worthwhile or not. I know a lot of questions that come up ask about why the material should be learned in the first place, "Why do i need to learn this stuff".
Some people just dont like math so they stay as far from it as possible.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
34,283
Some people just dont like math so they stay as far from it as possible.
I think it's more than just not liking math.
It's that they find math difficult, and thus will do the significant effort to learn it only if seems absolutely necessary.
Those that enjoy math and find it relatively easy to learn can sometimes have difficulty understanding that.

I'm very technically minded and readily understand circuit operation, and have a good aptitude for circuit design, but my mind resists using higher math, perhaps because it seems I have to use every available neuron in my brain to do it.:eek:
 

AlbertHall

Joined Jun 4, 2014
12,345
Hi again,

I see your point about math making circuits look more complicated and thus harder to learn.
I guess it all depends how this material is first introduced to a person, and how that person views the material as being worthwhile or not. I know a lot of questions that come up ask about why the material should be learned in the first place, "Why do i need to learn this stuff".
Some people just dont like math so they stay as far from it as possible.
I did some Open University courses a little while ago and some people on there who described themselves as 'math phobic' were dreading the math part of the courses (talking very basic algebra here) found that the way the OU taught it made sense and they could handle the maths and so I think a lot may depend on how it is taught.
 
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