I also read 1491 ... but I like 1493 better because of its more anecdotal style, and it contains much more information regarding the global economic and ecological impact of the event.

I'm going to get 1493 next time I order from Thrift Book. 1491 was interesting to me about the Bronze Age, didn't know that most of the world doesn't have native copper(like the Americas) only types of copper ore. So without the coming to America the Bronze Age wouldn't have ocured as early as it did, since the old world only had abundant tin.

 

The alternative to dealing with money is dealing with guns (or clubs, or stones, or whatever).

While I can shoot well, I'd rather trade my services for cash, and my cash for that which I need.

If you check out around the world and your local communities, dealing with guns is very prevalent. I would not call it an alternative, it actually appears to be first choice in many instances.

 

If you check out ... your local communities ...

Interesting. I've never had to threaten a bullet to someone's head in exchange for a loaf of bread.

Perhaps that's a phenomenon local to you?

 

Interesting. I've never had to threaten a bullet to someone's head in exchange for a loaf of bread.

Perhaps that's a phenomenon local to you?

But that’s not what he was saying, which is made murkier by your selective quote of what he said.

What he said was using weapons as a source of remuneration was common. He did not say using a weapon to kill for goods was common (worded carefully, to avoid the comparison to larceny).

 

hi shortbus,
Check these two links ref copper and bronze, in full swing long before the Europeans discovered the America's
E
https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/british_prehistory/bronzeageman_01.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Cornwall_and_Devon

 

But that’s not what he was saying, which is made murkier by your selective quote of what he said.

What he said was using weapons as a source of remuneration was common. He did not say using a weapon to kill for goods was common (worded carefully, to avoid the comparison to larceny).

IOW, @justtrying ignored the point of my original comment.

Isn't he a she, BTW, IIRC?

 

IOW, @justtrying ignored the point of my original comment.

Isn't he a she, BTW, IIRC?

Thanks for exposing me. I try so hard pass for a middle aged guy. DJ wasnt around when I "came out". Now back on topic - he got my point and you just keep doing what it is that you do.

Has anyone read "Guns, germs and steel"?

 

Has anyone read "Guns, germs and steel"?

that one's on my bucket list...

 

I noticed The anthropologist Jason Antrosio described Guns, Germs, and Steel as a form of "academic porn",
Max.

 

DJ wasnt around when I "came out"...

...and you just keep doing what it is that you do

At least I can't be accused of not paying attention.

 

I noticed The anthropologist Jason Antrosio described Guns, Germs, and Steel as a form of "academic porn",
Max.

I have read many reviews in a similar vein, most from anthropologists. His background is in biology. This is the only book of his I read and I do not plan to read others, but I like the underlying attempt to look at external constraints to explain how we got where we are. A lot of it makes sense. I also have a background in biology, so I can perhaps follow some of his logic as it almost follows an evolutionary theory in a way. I found the book flawed but interesting and informative.

 

To add to cmartinez, and get back to the original question, we are at a point where crispr is used to modify genes, parents pass on genetic material who would otherwise have never been able to do so through artificial means (surrogacy, etc). Vaccines are pushed on population of dubious efficacy. What do we know of our own make-up? If you change one gene, what is the cascade effect? We are currently experimenting on ourselves, for the greater good? I have come to a conclusion that this is largely driven by a few individuals with money who are afraid of death. I am sorry for them.

Nature has a way of balancing things out. So this problem will be solved. We developed antibiotics - bacteria evolved. We are running out of antibiotics. That is nature in action. We should learn the lesson - nature was her first. It will remain her after we are gone.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/doctors-crispr-gene-editing-cancer-1st-us-66789194

Just learned this morning in the news the U.S. has approved Crispr for Modification.

The first attempt in the United States to use a gene editing tool called CRISPR against cancer seems safe in the three patients who have had it so far, but it's too soon to know if it will improve survival, doctors reported Wednesday.
The doctors were able to take immune system cells from the patients' blood and alter them genetically to help them recognize and fight cancer, with minimal and manageable side effects.

The treatment deletes three genes that might have been hindering these cells' ability to attack the disease, and adds a new, fourth feature to help them do the job.
"It's the most complicated genetic, cellular engineering that's been attempted so far," said the study leader, Dr. Edward Stadtmauer of the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. "This is proof that we can safely do gene editing of these cells."

kv

 

hi shortbus,
Check these two links ref copper and bronze, in full swing long before the Europeans discovered the America's

Re read your second link. It talks about the tin mining in Cornwall and Devon, but nothing about copper. It also mentions Phoneticians coming there to buy tin. It was the Phoneticians that came to the Americas to trade for copper, which is only found in the Americas in the native or nugget form. The old world including the Egypt area only have copper in an ore form that must be smelted to make usable copper. Though they have a small amount in Cypress. Don't believe all you read in the history books, much of it is false and they find more all of the time on how false it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_copper

 

"What is the world coming to?"

Thermal runway in almost every sense of the concept. Not the first nor the last time since we are very extreme when it comes to survival however amount of people+ technology is unprecedented.

This can only be solved peacefully by reducing the power of people fueling the fire.

IIRC We would need 6 earths if everyone on the planet lived like the average Icelander.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33133712

 

hi @shortbus
I suggest you check the time lines of the Phonecian era and the discovery of Bronze.

Quote:
Phoenicia was an ancient civilization in Canaan which covered most of the western, coastal part of the fertile Crescent. Several major Phoenician cities were built on the coastline of the Mediterranean. It was an enterprising maritime trading culture that spread across the Mediterranean from 1550 BCE to 300 BCE.

Bronze:

http://www.makin-metals.com/about/history-of-bronze-infographic/E

 

Hi @ericgibbs Not going to argue with you. That link goes along with what is written in history books.

@cmartinez , I made a mistake in quoting 1491 as the source of my copper reference. I read 2 books back to back about prehistoric Americas, 1491, and "Sailing to Paradise" https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/2761991-sailing-to-paradise It was Sailing to Paradise that talks about the copper.

 

hi shortbus,
No argument intended, just discussing a difference of opinion with a colleague.
Just wanted to set the record straight.
E

 

Something just recently brought home the value of being literate, often taken for granted.
I remember being an avid reader from a very young age and encouraged by my parents.
This week during a ancestry search I discovered a copy of my great grandparents wedding certificate and the death certificate of my G. grandfather.
The signature of my G. Grandmother was with an X, also on the death certificate, the son who was present at the death also signed with an X.
Indicating they most probabally did not read or write.
Fortunately there were changes in education going on under the rule of Victoria at that time that stamped this out to a great degree.
Max.

 

I have not only encountered people who were illiterate but also those who could not count. I well remember an elderly woman I would see in the grocery store at the checkout who would just hand the cashier all of her money so the cashier could take out what she owed for her groceries. It has only been in the last half-century that it became required to have a high school diploma in order to be hired for employment. In a college history class, it was brought up that the definition of Civilization is to have a written history. Which enraged the several Nigerian Princes who were exchange students in the class. They vehemently protested to being called "Uncivilized" because their history was an oral tradition due to the fact that all of their ancestors were illiterate due to having no written language.

 

I have not only encountered people who were illiterate but also those who could not count. I well remember an elderly woman I would see in the grocery store at the checkout who would just hand the cashier all of her money so the cashier could take out what she owed for her groceries. It has only been in the last half-century that it became required to have a high school diploma in order to be hired for employment. In a college history class, it was brought up that the definition of Civilization is to have a written history. Which enraged the several Nigerian Princes who were exchange students in the class. They vehemently protested to being called "Uncivilized" because their history was an oral tradition due to the fact that all of their ancestors were illiterate due to having no written language.

I was taught that Civilization started with the establishment of agriculture ... which btw, the latest theories state that it was developed by women!