I was thinking of ordering some custom printed circuit boards. It will most likely be from Elecrow, but DirtyPCB is also an option. The North American (where I live) PCB manufacturers are simply to expensive for me to even consider.
If I were to etch a PCB at home, it would be illegal for me to pour the waste products (copper chlorides) down the drain, due to the environmental impact.

But then, what to do the Chinese PCB manufacturers do with these waste products?
Are there any laws in China to prohibit them from simply pouring them out?

 

Wow is that a loaded question. Just do a search on pollution and China and you should pretty much get the idea. Check out images which can be really shocking.

 

Last night I sent an e-mail message to Elecrow, and another one to DirtyPCB using the forms on their websites (not directly from my e-mail address). I asked them what they do with their chemical waste products.
Unfortunately, neither of them have responded so far. I hope that they will, and that they're not just ignoring it to be secretive.
I read on the DirtyPCB website that there's actually 8 different factories (all in China) that make boards for them. I don't know if whoever gets my message will actually know what happens in the factories.

 

Last night I sent an e-mail message to Elecrow, and another one to DirtyPCB using the forms on their websites (not directly from my e-mail address). I asked them what they do with their chemical waste products.
Unfortunately, neither of them have responded so far. I hope that they will, and that they're not just ignoring it to be secretive.
I read on the DirtyPCB website that there's actually 8 different factories (all in China) that make boards for them. I don't know if whoever gets my message will actually know what happens in the factories.

If they are dumping their waste I am sure they are going to tell you.


I have some prime swamp land property. Want to buy it? I am also the proud owner of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. I am willing to let it go cheap. Let me know if you are interested.

 

We seem to have another starry eyed youngster in another Thread today:
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/...f-you-register-with-them.132157/#post-1095392

 

We seem to have another starry eyed youngster...

I'm not saying that I'll totally believe whatever they say. I would only be somewhat more confident than I am currently, but that would depend on the details they give (like reference to a specific treatment facility). I think it's definately a good thing that I'm bringing this up though, and unfortunate that nobody has already (as far as I can find).

It would be great though if someone here knew what the laws are in China, or how to find out. I don't even know where to look, if they even have them posted in English.

If I don't get anything to hint that they are disposing them properly, then I'll probably only order from a country has better policies, but still cheaper than NA. I'll look into the South Korean PCB companies. I have a better feeling about Korea, and what I have searched so far on Google (regarding waste management) has brought up more results.

 

It would be great though if someone here knew what the laws are in China, or how to find out. I don't even know where to look, if they even have them posted in English.

.

I believe DirtyPCB is just a brokerage for different companies they use as a source.
More concerning is the food out of China and the lack of fish farming laws.
http://www.businessinsider.com/disgusting-truths-about-asian-aquaculture-2012-10
Max.

 

More concerning is the food out of China and the lack of fish farming laws.
Max.

There are some interesting gross stuff mentioned in that article. But polluting China's water and soil is only going to make the food worse, and that's what I'm talking about.

Even if something else is a bigger issue, I still don't want to contribute to something that I disagree with.
Besides, I don't think I eat much Chinese seafoo-... what?; "Eighty-six percent of our seafood is imported"? Who's seafood is this? I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada, and I figured that most of the seafood here (which is likely more salmon than anything) is from the ocean nearby.
Is it USA's seafood that they're referring to? It's normally the Americans that tend to vague like that, as if their audience was entirely American.

 

There are some interesting gross stuff mentioned in that article. But polluting China's water and soil is only going to make the food worse, and that's what I'm talking about.

Even if something else is a bigger issue, I still don't want to contribute to something that I disagree with.
Besides, I don't think I eat much Chinese seafoo-... what?; "Eighty-six percent of our seafood is imported"? Who's seafood is this? I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada, and I figured that most of the seafood here (which is likely more salmon than anything) is from the ocean nearby.
Is it USA's seafood that they're referring to? It's normally the Americans that tend to vague like that, as if their audience was entirely American.

Seafood can have odd value chains (supply chains). I almost bought some de-veined shrimp labelled "Louisiana Shrinp". It was on the belt of the grocery store and, as I was waiting in line I noticed, "deveined by hand in Vietnam". I left it with the cashier.

 

Some questions to consider:
- if you are considering not ordering a Chinese-made PCB for your project because of poorly handled waste, why do you expect the waste from the pcb in your phone was handled better? If you don't have that expectation, why did you buy your Chinese-made phone?

- if you have your pcb etched in a western company in hopes that the waste is handled well, how can you be sure the copper-clad FR4 board used by the western manufacturer was not made in China.

 

But then, what to do the Chinese PCB manufacturers do with these waste products?

If you look at how polluted their rivers are, I'll bet they're dumping it.

Are there any laws in China to prohibit them from simply pouring them out?

If they had any laws against it, they would only be effective if they were enforced. More than likely, some local person responsible for enforcing antipollution laws is being paid off...

 

If you look at how polluted their rivers are, I'll bet they're dumping it.
If they had any laws against it, they would only be effective if they were enforced. More than likely, some local person responsible for enforcing antipollution laws is being paid off...

Dumping will be allowed in the US soon. Trump promised to eliminate the EPA. He appointed the right person to head it for that goal.

 

I know for a fact that they load their hazardous waste into 55 gallon drums and launch them into space toward the sun. Therefore, you have nothing to worry about - your karma will remain intact.

 

I know for a fact that they load their hazardous waste into 55 gallon drums and launch them into space toward the sun. Therefore, you have nothing to worry about - your karma will remain intact.

Well, each day gets a little shorter for every drum they launch. I'll send them a thank-you letter - I'll 'live' a few more fractions of a second. .

 

It would be great though if someone here knew what the laws are in China...

I know the laws in China -- as told to me by the actual businessmen with whom I drank tea while there:

"Everything in China is both legal and illegal."

It depends on who you know and how much money you have.

 

Dumping will be allowed in the US soon. Trump promised to eliminate the EPA. He appointed the right person to head it for that goal.

Can say that for just about all of his picks. A secretary of education who has no experience in education, a secretary of labor that favors robots over people and doesn't believe in a decent minimum wage, a secretary of HUD who has no relevant experience and admits he is a poor administrator, a secretary of energy who couldn't remember the name of the department when he wanted to abolish it, an attorney general who's a racist, and on and on...

 

Can say that for just about all of his picks. A secretary of education who has no experience in education, a secretary of labor that favors robots over people and doesn't believe in a decent minimum wage, a secretary of HUD who has no relevant experience and admits he is a poor administrator, a secretary of energy who couldn't remember the name of the department when he wanted to abolish it, an attorney general who's a racist, and on and on...

I think Trump was inspired by the T-shirt his son, Eric, brought home after his "study abroad" semester.

 

Trump

I forgot, the secretary of labor nominee withdrew because of some issue with an ex-wife; I don't recall if a new one has been selected.

At least Flynn is gone. Don't see how his replacement could be worse.

I thought Trump was trying to set a record for the number of cabinet picks rejected. I was sadly mistaken because the GOP senators have no spine.

OP: Sorry for hijacking your thread, but I couldn't resist. Trump is such an easy target... Southern Whitehouse... Right...

 

I forgot, the secretary of labor nominee withdrew because of some issue with an ex-wife; I don't recall if a new one has been selected.

At least Flynn is gone. Don't see how his replacement could be worse.

I thought Trump was trying to set a record for the number of cabinet picks rejected. I was sadly mistaken because the GOP senators have no spine.

OP: Sorry for hijacking your thread, but I couldn't resist. Trump is such an easy target... Southern Whitehouse... Right...

I'll take the shit point for turning an on-topic thread political. We can move it to off-topic if you have more to say.

 

Well, yeah. I want this thread to be about China, and maybe also get into some alternative countries for PCB production, but not the US. Definately nothing to do with Tr**p either, as it tends to steal the show.

I got a reply to Elecrow:

Dear Liam,
Absolutely, we will send that to waste plant.

Well, that gives me more hope than if they never replied. But I was hoping that they would mention a specific waste plant, so that I could look it up to verify it.
It might be more effective to send them something in Mandarin, due to their likely shyness with English. But I don't speak Mandarin personally.

Does anyone know how much it costs to take care of that stuff, whatever that entails? They would be more willing to do that if there aren't drawbacks to it.

Some questions to consider:
- if you are considering not ordering a Chinese-made PCB for your project because of poorly handled waste, why do you expect the waste from the pcb in your phone was handled better? If you don't have that expectation, why did you buy your Chinese-made phone?

- if you have your pcb etched in a western company in hopes that the waste is handled well, how can you be sure the copper-clad FR4 board used by the western manufacturer was not made in China.

But I think that getting 10 10x10cm PCB's has got to be more than everything in all the electronic devices that I buy in a year. I'll likely not even use all 10 copies that they send. But you seem to be suggesting "If you can't eliminate your impact entirely, then why even bother trying to reduce it?" But it is critical that you don't fuck-up when the power is in your hands.

As for the copper clad; the chemical waste that I'm aware of is produced during the etching process. I think that those boards are made by simply gluing them to the substrate.

If you look at how polluted their rivers are, I'll bet they're dumping it.

The copper chloride that's left from PCB etching is hazardous waste. Even if they don't dump the etching chemicals into the rivers, they would still be polluted from all the regular waste.
I recently read this article about a foreigner's experience living in a Chinese village where they dump all the garbage into the river.