I am new to most of this stuff so please be patient with my questions.
I have included a couple of pictures of my 3 phase electric motor & the plate that I would like to use as the basis for a home made bead roller machine I guess you would call it.
I know it will require a;

• foot pedal controller,
• forward and reverse function
• variable speed function.

Just for the record, I have also attached a general picture of what a bead roller is just in case it may help.
I live in Australia and I am retired, so I would like to keep my costs to a minimum where possible.
I expect in my case that I will mount my motor down low (near to my base) and use a chain and sprocket drive to the machine body thereby obtaining a reduction in the varsity of 10 rpm as sweet spot with the ability to increase and/or reduce my speed up or down.

My wife tells me I will also need to install an emergency RED mushroom safety switch if I want to keep her on side with my project.

From the information provided can anybody please give me a kick start on the electric/electronic side of things.

Many thanks,

Russ.

 

As you need to change the speed of the 3 phase motor you need to change the supply frequency. VFD (Variable frequency drives.) will do what you want. The incoming power supply can be single or 3 phase. (Select the right model for your type of power supply. The control signals to them are low voltage which make the control circuit simple. You could have a centre off two sided foot pedal for forward and reverse and a potentiometer mounted in a convenient position for speed. (You could also probably make a foot control that also controlled the speed as well as direction.) I can't read the information plate on the motor very well due to reflections so I don't now if it can be configured for 220 as well as 415 volts. In the UK (240 V 50 hz mains) VFDs with 220 volts output are cheaper than 415 output models. As you do not say which country you are from I don't know what your mains voltage will be.

Les.

 

Hi Les and thanks for your reply.
I have attached some better pic's of my motors ID plate.
It has been very frustrating trying to stop the shinny reflection of the plate.
I expect that now you will be able to see all numbers etc stamped.
By the way I am in Australia and I did state this in my opening spiel.

Any further comments will be much appreciated, now that you know where I reside.

 

I think the Australian mains is the same as the UK. There does not seem to be anything on the plate to indicate that it can be configured to work on 220/240 volts. It does say it is 415 volts for star (Y) connection. If the six ends of the windings are available in the connection box on the motor it could be configured for delta operation which would make it work on 220/240 volts. I suggest looking what VFDs are available in Australia and prices.

Les.

 

Hi fiftyv8. Welcome to the forum.
I too live in Oz.
One of these may work ok. It runs on single phase and produces the variable 3 phase to drive the motor. At least it is an idea where to start from. I've not used them myself. A check to see if a foot pedal or other external controls can be added will be needed but as I have an early start in the morning I'm off to bed now.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-5KW-2...363408?hash=item2f0da4be90:g:JrkAAOSwvApZ8HpX

Oh, and of course, one of these....
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Push-bu...m=252876112293&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

 

Great and thanks for your help.

I am guessing that I could use one of these to achieve forward and reverse motion.
Can anybody confirm that this will work for my motor???

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/60A-Drum-Switch-Forward-Off-Reverse-Motor-Control-Rain-proof-Reversing

 

That drum switch should work with your motor PROVIDING THAT YOU HAVE A THREE PHASE SUPPLY. (415V phase to phase, 240 V phase to neutral.) You will not be able to change the speed.

Les.

 

I have a 3 phase supply to my workshop.
I understand that the drum switch works for reversing only.
What did you mean by saying I will not be able to change the speed?
I am assuming that you mean that the drum switch does not influence speed!

 

fiftyv8, I do some metal shaping too and know what your trying to do. Some day will even power my bead roller. Don't know if you know about MetalMeet.com, but it's a good forum all about shaping. And very friendly guys there. Many guys there from OZ, the most famous one is Peter Tommasini. But there are many other there. There are a few builds doing what your doing there so you may get some ideas of how other people did this.

The Huanyang clone VFD that dendad showed is a pretty good unit, or at least the ones I have are. A quick look at Ebay may even get one at a better price. They are easy to program, easier than the more expensive Teco brand that the Huanyang replaced.

 

Re post #8 I was assuming that you were just using the reversing switch with an incomming three phase supply.
If you use a VFD you do not need a reversing switch as the VFD will do the reversing. Putting any switching between the VFD and the motor is bad practice unless the VFD is designed for that type of use. (Which most are not.)

Les.

 

The big problem with Huanyang is the quality of manual and support.
But they are cheap.
IIRC there was a recent project here for a bead roller using a Universal motor from a power hand drill etc.
I helped the OP off line with some of the hook-up.
If you have 415 3ph then the VFD might be the better choice.
Max.

 

OK, I am starting to get a feel for what is required, so how does a foot control fit into what we are talking about.
If a drum switch is not required when using a VFD, can a VFD handle working with a foot switch?

Shortbus, yes I know the name Peter Tommasini and I too belong to two metal forums, but I have posted on one asking questions but as soon as 3 phase gets a mention the info seems to dry up or become an opinion not a fact.

I figured I needed to hear stuff from guys who I expect to have a much more reliable depth of knowledge and are possibly better positioned to be able to explain what they are saying for me to get my head around.

Since we are on VFD's, just browsing around, it seems there are two options;

1. single phase in and 3 phase out, or
2. 3 phase in and 3 phase out.

Are both options open to me or should I be using only one of these two setups?

I just received this comment from one of my metal working forums.

"I use a 2hp VFD on my 1.5 HP Milling machine. 10 years, no problem. I'd get a 1 hp unit for the .5HP. The only issue with VFD speed control is that the motor may not want to start if the frequency is turned way down. On the Mill I just start at 60HZ and turn it down when it is running. The stop/start nature of bead rolling won't allow that. Gear it so it runs slow at 60 Hz. then just speed up from there. My old ears don't hear the buzz. My younger friends say it is annoying.
Three phase motors are easy to reverse. Just swap two of the three input power wires. A double throw/ double pole switch will work."

Any thoughts???

 

All the control circuitry is low voltage, usually 24vdc.
With a VFD, one way is a pedal fitted with a 10k linear pot, you need some way of revolving the shaft with pedal depression and return when the pedal is released.
The reversing is also done with a couple of switched inputs.
You do NOT swap wires on the motor with a VFD.
Since you have 3ph then the 1ph issue does not arise, also it is difficult to get a 420v VFD for 1ph input, they are mainly for 230v 3ph motors using a 230v 1ph supply.
Max.

 

I have only looked at single phase input VFDs (As I don't have a three phase mains supply.) and I had to buy a three phase motor. (I was replacing the single phase motor on my lathe to give me variable speed.) A single phase 240 volt input VFD with 240 volts three phase output is much simpler than 240 in to 415 three phase out. I have never looked at the detailed design of these but I suspect the first stage is a switch mode step up converter to generate about 587 volts DC (415 x root 2) reqired to generate the 415 volts three phase output. This step up is not required if only 240 volts output is required. (The incomming 240 volts just needs to be rectified.) If you have three phase input only rectification is required to get the required DC voltage. I suggest that you have a look inside the connection box on your motor to see if it can be changed from star to delta configuration. If you can't work it out take some pictures so we can see the wires comming out of the motor to the terminals.

Les.

 

I don't see any advantage to changing the motor to 230v (delta) , if you have the option to run on 3ph 415v then this is the obvious choice.
More on the L.V. input control, it is normally supplied by the VFD so no additional 24vdc supply is needed.
Max.

 

If you don't want to use a VFD (best solution) then you may consider building your own RPC using another 3 phase motor. Here is the one I made to run my Bridgeport mill and grinder. You must however use a magnetic starter circuit (Red Button (E) Stop) so the unit will stop with a power interruption and not restart on it's own.

 

I think I'd prefer to use a VFD unit, so I am just trying to determine which one/type within my budget.
I know that I need one that will either provide me with or be compatible with a foot control and capable of running in reverse.
Up to now I've never physically seen or held one in my hands to know much about them.
Until a couple of days ago I did not even know the correct name for one...

Does an earlier comment sound right, whereby I should shoot for the lowest speed I require and then use the VFD to increase speed from there???

 

Does an earlier comment sound right, whereby I should shoot for the lowest speed I require and then use the VFD to increase speed from there???

That's the way most people do it. It's less hard on the motor that way. Gear it to the lowest speed you want, when running at standard Hz. Then use the VFD to speed it up. Since most motors are fan cooled, doing it this way will keep the motor cooler than if you use the VFD to slow it down. When a motor is slowed down the fan isn't as effective and causes overheating.

 

The big problem with Huanyang is the quality of manual and support.

Late last fall I got one of the Huanynag "clones", haven't needed support, but the manual was pretty good, almost English, not the normal "Chinglish" with most stuff. I say "clone" because it isn't branded Huanyang.

Since we are on VFD's, just browsing around, it seems there are two options;

1. single phase in and 3 phase out, or
2. 3 phase in and 3 phase out.

Are both options open to me or should I be using only one of these two setups?

Most any of the small VFD's, under 5HP. will work on either single or three phase. After 5HP they don't recommend single phase though. And like anything electronic, it will live longer if you get one size bigger than the motor you want to run. Running things electronic, like a VFD at it's rated limit, is asking for trouble.

 

Thanks Shortbus.
I found a local VFD unit, Chinese of course called www.chinafollin.com

They are offering me this ebay item.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/0-75kw-...354759?hash=item2efb2a6347:g:r18AAOSw4LdZ32i1

The guy has also sent me a manual which does not mean a whole lot to a lay man like me.
I'm hoping somebody can pass a comment on how this would work with my motor.
He tells me it is reversible and the variable speed works fine and it will accept a stop start foot control with some extra external work.

Sorry for slow responses to posts, but the forum has dropped out a couple of times today.