I took electronics in high school too, but it didn't look like that! Nice gear. But what does VICA stand for? A quick search brings up this
View attachment 139010
which doesn't look like high school - at least mine.

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR836/MR836.appF.pdf

The electronics VICA was sponsored by TI and local Texas electronics companies in 1971.

 

@nsaspook
Fascinating! Thanks for sharing that.
Back onto topic..

 

Classic TEK scopes in some of my yearbook photos. How many of you guys remember VICA?

Wow, that was really a long time ago

When I started with electronics in the late '70s/early '80s scopes we had were thankfully a bit more compact than these (schools in Germany mostly used Hameg and Philips scopes back then). First time I saw a Tek was when I started working after school.

 

Wow, that was really a long time ago

When I started with electronics in the late '70s/early '80s scopes we had were thankfully a bit more compact than these (schools in Germany mostly used Hameg and Philips scopes back then). First time I saw a Tek was when I started working after school.

My first scope was one of these, which my father gave to me for my 11th birthday back in 1960. He bought it for $25 from a co-worker, who had assembled it from a kit (I'm not sure the Eico Model 425 was ever offered as a kit, so it may have been a different, though similar, model).

That thing was a real pig: ≈50 kHz vertical bandwidth; single channel; non-triggered, "synchronized" horizontal sweep; noisy pots and switches controlling the vertical sensitivity and horizontal sweep speed; and the slowest the horizontal sweep would go was about 30 Hz. It was awful, though a bit better than having no scope at all.

It was also wired wrong: the fellow who had put the kit together wired the horizontal deflection plates backwards, so the trace ran from right to left across the scope face instead of left to right. I couldn't tell because the minimum sweep rate was so fast, and the CRT had a rather long-persistence phosphor. I used it that way for several months. As long as I was looking at a sine wave everything was fine; but for anything else, things looked "funny." And like any other true-blue clueless newbie, I developed some pretty whacked-out theories to explain why what I was seeing looked so odd. The waveforms in those textbooks couldn't be right, could they? Nah, they must have things all backwards...

Eventually I discovered the error, reconnected the horizontal plates according to the schematic, and jettisoned my crazy theories. All was well.

 

My first scope was one of these, which my father gave to me for my 11th birthday back in 1960. He bought it for $25 from a co-worker, who had assembled it from a kit (I'm not sure the Eico Model 425 was ever offered as a kit, so it may have been a different, though similar, model).

My first was a surplus OS-8/U I bought during high school.
http://blogs.telosalliance.com/found-in-the-attic-os-8/u-oscilloscope

 

My first was a surplus OS-8/U I bought during high school.

Oh, man, I SOOOOO wanted one of those, but was never able to get my hands on one. I found one in an electronics surplus store outside the Army base I was stationed at back in the 70's, but it was inoperative AND they wanted an arm and a leg for it.

 

Oh, man, I SOOOOO wanted one of those, but was never able to get my hands on one. I found one in an electronics surplus store outside the Army base I was stationed at back in the 70's, but it was inoperative AND they wanted an arm and a leg for it.

Mine was inoperative (and very dirty) too. Repaired it in the schools electronics lab. Thank goodness it had a CRT cone hood you could pull out to see the trace because it was dim with that old burnt phosphor.

 

My first was a surplus monster. AN/YK designation, I think. Can't remember the model number but it weighed about 60 lbs. It looked a lot like the OS-8/U but I'm pretty sure it was something different. Manufacturer's name escapes me now, maybe Ball, Hickock or Simpson. It took forever to warm up and even when up and running it drifted all over the place. Using it was a challenge - quick cal, get the measurement before it drifted elsewhere. Bah humbug. I loved it at first but after about 5K re-cals (with a VTVM and a couple of homebrew circuits with1% parts, we are talking old school, right?) and 2 moves hated it so much I gave it away. At least I learned how analog scopes worked. By comparison my now defunct little 10 lb Tek 2225 with a built in 1K square wave ref was a joy!

 

My aging Tektronix TDS1001B is now officially retired: a Siglent SDS1202X-E showed up on my doorstep the other day and I decided to give it a home.

I'm pleased with it so far, after playing with it for a couple of hours. Although the scope is the same overall size as the TDS, the screen is much bigger and has much higher resolution (800x480 vs. 320x240). That, plus the color display, makes the Siglent much easier on my 68-year-old eyes; all by itself, this makes it a worthwhile purchase.

My only major gripe at this point is the User Manual. My MacOS file info panel shows the document as having 123 authors, and it's painfully clear that not all of them write well in English: I've been doing a LOT of head-scratching, and it's slowing down my familiarization with the scope.

Other than that, I've encountered a few minor software bugs in the user interface, such as a "zombie dialog box" that didn't disappear after I dismissed it.

I've got a lot more exploring and practicing to do before I'm completely checked out on this thing; if I find anything else noteworthy I'll post it here.

So far so good, though. Nice little scope, especially considering the price tag.

I am in the process of ordering a Siglent SDS1202X-E.

I redeemed my Capital One miles that I would likely never use anyway for $300 in Amazon gift cards. After I order the Siglent SDS1202X-E I will put my Rigol Ds1102E up for sale on ebay. One just went for $260. Even if I get close to that I figure I am walking away with a free scope.

 

I am in the process of ordering a Siglent SDS1202X-E.

I redeemed my Capital One miles that I would likely never use anyway for $300 in Amzon gift cards. After I order the Siglent SDS1202X-E I will put my Rigol Ds1102E up for sale on ebay. One just went for $260. Even if I get close to that I figure I am walking away with a free scope.

Happiness is a free scope!

Overall I'm satisfied with mine. However, I've run into a few more software bugs in the week since my last post, including one where the unit locked up-- stopped responding to the front panel buttons, including the ON/OFF button, and I had to unplug it and plug it back in.

Be prepared to do a LOT of head-scratching while reading the Owners Manual.

 

Happiness is a free scope!

Overall I'm satisfied with mine. However, I've run into a few more software bugs in the week since my last post, including one where the unit locked up-- stopped responding to the front panel buttons, including the ON/OFF button, and I had to unplug it and plug it back in.

Be prepared to do a LOT of head-scratching while reading the Owners Manual.

The good news about software bugs is they can be fixed with a download. Assuming they keep on top of them.

 

It's only upside is the built-in educational stuff, but then these days Tek's biggest market (or better, the market that hasn't yet turned away from them) is the edu sector.

Maybe. I was in the University of Colorado's Undergraduate Electronics Lab a few weeks ago. The place was decked out with Keysight 4-channel 1GHz 4000 series touchscreen scopes. Brand new keysight power supplies, function generators, etc. Even the EDU sector is turning away from Tek. I know the analog electronics professor. He told them to stop using the touchscreen after the first few days - knowing that the students probably won't get that luxury when they get their first job.

Pretty sure this was the scope on the benches: Starting at a paltry $16.6k
http://www.keysight.com/en/pdx-x201...alog-channels?nid=-32539.1150543&cc=US&lc=eng

 

Maybe. I was in the University of Colorado's Undergraduate Electronics Lab a few weeks ago. The place was decked out with Keysight 4-channel 1GHz 4000 series touchscreen scopes. Brand new keysight power supplies, function generators, etc. Even the EDU sector is turning away from Tek.

I'm not surprised, Keysight, LeCroy and R&S are also pretty active in the edu market, and if the deciders in an institution just slightly follow the market they'll be aware of how backwards Tek digital scopes are and settle for some other brand's gear.

I know the analog electronics professor. He told them to stop using the touchscreen after the first few days - knowing that the students probably won't get that luxury when they get their first job.

I'm not so sure that's such a good idea. Touchscreens have been standard on high-end scopes for >15yrs, and mid-range and upper entry-level scopes for >5yrs. By the time they finish, chances are good that the students will encounter touch-based scopes in their first jobs, unless their work requires only a very basic scope. Even if not, not teaching them to (properly) use a touch screen (which can be helpful for a lot of things like setting up zone triggers) is doing these students a disservice in my opinion.

Pretty sure this was the scope on the benches: Starting at a paltry $16.6k
http://www.keysight.com/en/pdx-x201...alog-channels?nid=-32539.1150543&cc=US&lc=eng

Yes, but don't get too carried away by the list price, because pretty much no-one pays them. Realistically, you can take at least 20% off for normal buyers, and EDU discounts are often >50%.

I'm not a fan of the DSOX4000 and DSOX6000 Series (because of their poor specs and limited capabilities for a scope of this price class) but for educational use the DSOX4104A is a good choice because it pretty much sits in the middle between a basic low-end scope and a true high end scope, being able to give students a 'taste' of both worlds if used the right way by the instructor.

 

I'm not so sure that's such a good idea. Touchscreens have been standard on high-end scopes for >15yrs, and mid-range and upper entry-level scopes for >5yrs. By the time they finish, chances are good that the students will encounter touch-based scopes in their first jobs, unless their work requires only a very basic scope. Even if not, not teaching them to (properly) use a touch screen (which can be helpful for a lot of things like setting up zone triggers) is doing these students a disservice in my opinion.

I've been interviewing a lot lately. I saw about 6 labs in the Boulder area (where many of the students will find jobs). Not a single one had a touch screen. Not a single one. I'm not saying touch screens aren't coming around. But, you've got to remember, these teenagers are very adapt at using touch screens - that's almost all they've ever known. If they get into industry and they don't have a touchscreen they'll be at a disadvantage. I think my friend is very wise to encourage the students to use the knobs - knowing they'll figure out the touch screen quickly.

 

I've been interviewing a lot lately. I saw about 6 labs in the Boulder area (where many of the students will find jobs). Not a single one had a touch screen. Not a single one.

Fair enough, and there might be reasons for that, i.e. that the industry these labs work in don't need very advanced scopes. On the other side, none of the labs I work for is 'touch-scope free'. Which means unless a job really only requires a very basic scope every engineer will be confronted with a mid-range or high-end scope with a touch screen.

I'm not saying touch screens aren't coming around. But, you've got to remember, these teenagers are very adapt at using touch screens - that's almost all they've ever known. If they get into industry and they don't have a touchscreen they'll be at a disadvantage. I think my friend is very wise to encourage the students to use the knobs - knowing they'll figure out the touch screen quickly.

I mostly agree, and of course they should learn how to use the knobs first. But just because teens are familiar with touch screens doesn't mean they can do touch stuff on a scope properly. And for some functions like zonal triggers a touchscreen (or a mouse) is the only way to ever use that function, so keeping them away from using the touch screen means keeping them away from certain scope functions.

These days, employers like us expect an EE graduate to be able to properly handle a digital scope and make use of the advanced functionality in those scopes (something applicants are usually asked to demonstrate in a small measurement exercise). Unfortunately some institutions still teach the usage of scopes the way it was done in the analog scope era, which is doing its students a huge disservice.

 

This discussion has stirred my interest in getting a more modern (i.e., more capable) DSO to replace my ancient Tektronix 40 MHz TDS1001B-- something I've thought of from time to time in the last few years, but never pursued very seriously. After nearly 50 years in the "will do electronics for food" racket, I'm now retired and therefore once again a hobbyist-- and living on a fixed income. As much as I would love to have one of LeCroy's latest and greatest scopes, those are WAY outside my budget; in my circumstances, $400 is more to my liking.

Well, there's still the 2nd hand market, and you can often find very advanced scopes from LeCroy and Agilent/Keysight going for low prices.

On the other side, at $400 you really can't do better than with one of the cheap Chinese B-brand scopes.

Both the Rigol DS1054Z and the Siglent SDS1202XE seem like suitable replacements, and the price is right. The wider bandwidth of the Siglent appeals to me, as do the 4 channels of the Rigol (although not as important in what I do), but I'm currently leaning toward the Siglent.

Can anyone point to a compelling reason to choose the DS1054Z over the SDS1202XE? Does either of them offer any nifty feature(s) that the other lacks? Does either one present any major annoyances that the other does not?

Well, the Rigol DS1054z has been on the market for some time, and by now its firmware is pretty mature. The original BW is low but thanks to the 'Riglol' hack it's easy to increase the BW to 150MHz and enable all options. It's downsides are its sample rate (250MSa/s only in 4ch mode) and its slow processing backend. Also, FFTs are limited to 16kpts only, which is better than the 4kpts it supported when it came out but is still very small.

The SDS1202X-E is a younger scope and it appears to still have its fair share of bugs, which may or may not be resolved in the coming months. Also, it's just a 2ch scope, and for many tasks having at least a 3rd channel can be tremendously helpful. But the SDS1202X-E has a faster processing backend, and supports FFT up to I think 1Mpts which is good. Serial decode is also included in the standard package. However, it seems some of the scopes have a hardware bug that prevents proper compensation of a passive probe, and the fix involves soldering some SMD components to the board.

There's also the upcoming SDS1204X-E, which is essentially the 4ch variant of the SDS1202X-E, and which is rumored to be priced pretty aggressively.

For around $400, I don't think any of those scopes is a bad buy. If you need the scope now then I'd probably recommend the Rigol over the Siglent SDS1202X-E, because its more mature. However, if you can wait 'til early next year then the SDS1204X-E should arrive, with further matured firmware and a factory fix for the SDS1202X-E compensation issue.

 

Since I was able to fix my Tek 2225, I've been able to avoid rushing in. However, it's all starting to look very tempting now as ScopeWars breaks out. The SDS1204X-E is going to be available very soon - there's an announcement set for Monday Nov 27 and a number of reviewers actually have them in hand. The US price point is probably $499. Couple that with the Rigol DS1054Z now going for $349 (and a further tequipment discount from another forum making it $329) and I am on the horns of a dilemma. Based on what the embargoed reviewers have hinted, the 1204X-E has better much specs and display but it's $170 more than the Rigol.

I've pretty much decided I'm going with a 4 channel scope. My scope couldn't have died at a better time!

On the 1202X-E compensation point, I think the whole thing is over blown. The net result of it is that some traces (square waves) are slightly off in some cases. The purists are enraged. Supposedly there has been a fix for weeks (one extra cap per channel - the pad is already there on the mainboard). Siglent is claiming that all new scopes have the fix and they will board swap existing ones in the field. If nothing else, it's a great way to see if Siglent is truly going to stand behind their products.

 

We have been using the Siglent SDS1202X-E for three months now and have not noticed or read anything about the compensation issue until now. I will have to check into it. Otherwise we've been very satisfied with this scope.

 

This is an incredibly long thread on the compensation issue. I would not blame you at all if you TL;DR'd it.

 

This is an incredibly long thread on the compensation issue. I would not blame you at all if you TL;DR'd it.

TL DRed? English please.