Thought for the day...

SamR

Joined Mar 19, 2019
5,491
In a rosin refinery we had a lot of the same issues with tankage. Rosin lines are traced and heated with 125psi steam and both after and before product transfer the lines are blown with 250psi steam to clear and preheat the line. Tanks have steam heating coils, vacuum breakers, pressure relief valves isolated with rupture disks to prevent valve fouling, and are "topped" with low pressure nitrogen to prevent product oxidation which is accelerated at higher temperatures. IF the operator does not follow proper valving procedure or pressure relief fails two catastrophic scenarios can and do occur. The tank gets pumped out without venting and collapses. The transfer line gets blown in the wrong direction sending steam condensate into a tank of hot rosin which flashes into steam separating the tank's weak seam roof and sending it sailing like a 50' diameter steel frisbee. Both causes for employee termination. Never saw it happen but have witnessed the aftermath several times.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
Would you say this is a better idea?

Better, no. Doomed to practicality and physics (obviously as the video was 5 years ago) for no more than trivial amounts of power for the cost.

The first rule is, you don't get something for nothing. Each turbine represents a resistance in the circuit that will pull extra power from the passing vehicle if it's closely coupled to the slipstream. The more aerodynamic an object is, the smaller and weaker its slipstream will be. These devices will reduce the passing vehicle aerodynamics by making pressure wall in front of the moving vehicle slipstream, the air will be compressed (that takes energy), expanding the slipstream (increasing drag).

For useful amounts on power, thermodynamics is a cruel mistress.
 

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,782
Each turbine represents a resistance in the circuit that will pull extra power from the passing vehicle if it's closely coupled to the slipstream.
That was my thought exactly. And then again, no vehicle is aerodynamically perfect and always leaves turbulence in its wake. I just wonder if there's a way to recover some of the energy wasted on that.

But, then again, even if there were a way to recover some of the lost energy, said energy would be better spent on the vehicle itself than on the street anyway.

So we'll always be back to square one, I guess.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
That was my thought exactly. And then again, no vehicle is aerodynamically perfect and always leaves turbulence in its wake. I just wonder if there's a way to recover some of the energy wasted on that.

But, then again, even if there were a way to recover some of the lost energy, said energy would be better spent on the vehicle itself than on the street anyway.

So we'll always be back to square one, I guess.
The problem with recovering power from turbulence here is of course entropy. There is a large random component being converted to hard to recover heat as opposed to laminar flow. Losses in a turbulent flow are much higher than in a laminar flow.
This random distribution is really important with a small vertical turbine in IMO marginal conditions at best.
As you say, much better spent on the vehicle in just about all possible cases.
 
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SamR

Joined Mar 19, 2019
5,491
Look up the Atmos Clock. As close to a "free lunch" as you can get. It gets energy to store in its mainspring from changes in atmospheric pressure and temperature. A 1°C change in temperature will power it for 4.3 days (turn off the high precision digital HVAC thermostat). It can go for years without being touched. Swiss clockmaking at its best eliminating entropy. But you pay very dearly for what you get...
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
Look up the Atmos Clock. As close to a "free lunch" as you can get. It gets energy to store in its mainspring from changes in atmospheric pressure and temperature. A 1°C change in temperature will power it for 4.3 days (turn off the high precision digital HVAC thermostat). It can go for years without being touched. Swiss clockmaking at its best eliminating entropy. But you pay very dearly for what you get...
Sure, It's not a closed system, it takes a massive, billions of years old, fusion reactor to keep it running at tiny power levels.
The equivalent modern technology is a $10 Chinese solar panel powered clock.
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Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
9,744
I just wonder if there's a way to recover some of the energy wasted on that.
Sound. There's noise just about everywhere. Out in rural areas there's less demand for energy and there's less noise. So sound would work better in the noisy environment. Not saying it would be practical, just responding to your ponderings.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
The good, the bad and the really bad.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/p...tenced-3-years-prison-theft-customer-accounts
Tacoma –A 44-year-old former bank manager from Battle Ground, Washington, was sentenced today in U.S. District Court in Tacoma to 42 months in prison for Bank Fraud and Aggravated Identify Theft, announced U.S. Attorney Tessa M. Gorman. Brian Davie, a former branch manager at Wells Fargo, used unauthorized cash withdrawals, money transfers, and cashier’s checks to steal over $1 million. Davie targeted elderly and vulnerable customers. Eight victims have been identified. One woman had more than $566,000 stolen from her retirement accounts.

At today’s sentencing hearing U.S. District Judge Benjamin H. Settle said, “The wake of damage in this case is large. It involved multiple victims over some time... Our society depends on the trust of those who hold our finances.”
...
Davie continued undetected because he stole from elderly customers who might be less likely to closely monitor their account balances. Some of Davie’s victims had dementia or had limited English skills and did not understand banking transactions. In at least one case, Davie failed to file the paperwork to install a victim’s relative as a co-signer on the victim’s accounts. That failure prevented the relative from being able to monitor the account and detect the fraudulent transactions.
What a bastard, 42 months is too short for stealing people's lives and hopes.
 
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