I think perhaps it is some inconsistent in the forum. As I can see light dimmer circuits, and light organs powered by the mains are OK. But a rectifier connected directly to the mains is not OK. Both are very much the same. And how about 12 V to 230 volt inverter circuit request. I guess the latter it so hard to build that many give up before they even draw a schematic

 

I've enjoyed this forum, mainly as a lurker but at times a contributor, and have learned much here.
I feel that when a 'dangerous' topic arises (whether it be LEDs from 120VAC, or "how do I change an outlet" type stuff), it would probably be best to go into the textbook-style "THIS IS HOW AC WORKS IN YOUR HOUSE" mode, with disclaimers, of course.
A person can search the DIY home-stuff on the net and find what they're looking for anyway....so maybe an emphasis on teaching would be in order?
Someone wanting a 'fun-zapper' made from a disposable camera could be educated on just how little current could cause a fatal "FUN zap", and why one shouldn't do it. Those wanting a Jacob's Ladder could be told about how that 14kV burner transformer could knock you dead in a mS if handled improperly.
As said above, it becomes clear when a poster doesn't have enough knowledge to mess around in a certain area; but there is a time in all of our lives when we DO mess around, to learn...so maybe the idea should be about 'how do we get this person to be safe when doing something they're going to do, because they've read about it elsewhere?'. Tough decision for the moderators!
I'll watch this topic to see where it goes, it could be interesting!

 

There was a thread about a doorbell joke, where the child really started a problem here. At least with me. I was trying to find where he lived to keep anyone from being killed. Its that kind of behavior that we do not need.

Bill is correct about the ability to gauge education level from the first post.

The child asked how to boost voltage because the house had 240v and tasers had 10,000v so he wanted to boost the 240v to "make it hurt more"

With no knowledge of amperage, this kid could have burned his house down or killed the postman, a parent, a friend.

It isn't censorship, the information exists, it can be found. It is up to the more responsible to make sure the "short cut" isn't given to death. If the kid wants to build a doorbell zapper, he has some learning to do. I'm glad he asked here. If it were another site, who knows who would have died. I can see the conversation:

kid: I want to boost the 240v to make it hurt more! You know tasers are 10,000v!
someoneelse: Wow, your right. ok do this: _____________________________

I used to do dangerous things to learn. There was no Internet in those days. I'm lucky I had a engineer father who I could come to with ANY question prior to a build.

Many people don't have that at home. So, we are that person to them. A (decent) father wouldn't do something to hurt their kids.

 

“Someone wanting a 'fun-zapper' made from a disposable camera could be educated on just how little current could cause a fatal "FUN zap", and why one shouldn't do it. Those wanting a Jacob's Ladder could be told about how that 14kV burner transformer could knock you dead in a mS if handled improperly.”

An excellent point. Someone looking for information on this type of subject would be best served by describing the pitfalls, not closing the thread. The information is available elsewhere, you can’t prevent them trying it, but you can be in the right place at the right time to potentially save a life.

“It isn't censorship, the information exists, it can be found. It is up to the more responsible to make sure the "short cut" isn't given to death. If the kid wants to build a doorbell zapper, he has some learning to do. I'm glad he asked here. If it were another site, who knows who would have died.”

Exactly. And how does THREAD CLOSED help this kid? Knowledge is not in itself dangerous. How it’s treated can be. Simply closing the thread is just passing the buck.

Scenario 1: They came here for help with a potentially dangerous idea, and left feeling a little more enlightened and little less likely to hurt themselves.

Or.

Scenario 2: They came here for help with a potentially dangerous idea, left feeling rejected and move on to the next forum. Where the contributors might not be quite so responsible.

 

All good points, but some of these pranksters are very determined. Explanation of dangers and pitfalls often spurs them on even more. They are at that rebelous age when risks don't register, consequences are irrellevant and danger is fun.

It's basically a no-win situation, and apparantly the moderators figure that if you can't win, then don't play. I think I see the logic in that, and it's also the safer approach from a legal point of view. After all, if the thread is open, then there may be 99% cautions and 1% useful information presented to the person. The cautions will be ignored and that 1% could be enough to allow him to do some damage.

Besides, when the thread is closed, the moderator gives the reason and that is enough caution if the reader is a "listener" with common sense.

 

All good points, but some of these pranksters are very determined. Explanation of dangers and pitfalls often spurs them on even more. They are at that rebelous age when risks don't register, consequences are irrellevant and danger is fun.

It's basically a no-win situation, and apparantly the moderators figure that if you can't win, then don't play. I think I see the logic in that, and it's also the safer approach from a legal point of view. After all, if the thread is open, then there may be 99% cautions and 1% useful information presented to the person. The cautions will be ignored and that 1% could be enough to allow him to do some damage.

Besides, when the thread is closed, the moderator gives the reason and that is enough caution if the reader is a "listener" with common sense.

EXCELLENT ANSWER FOR THIS ENTIRE THREAD.

This quote should be the front page of this forum not a sticky thread, but where it can be read without having to choose to open it up, like a title openly able to read...

Great quote: It shows excellent judgement in your thinking, when writing this quote...

 

Intent is everything and so is liability. If someone goes on a gun forum and asks what powder is the best to make a pipe bomb, then I'd imagine that thread would get tossed and the user banned most likely. And probably some suited fellows at the door..

We can't save everybody from doing stupid things, however, I think that the admin of this board is pretty fair and generally do say something is dangerous before closing the thread.

Like people always say, "if you can stop one person from killing themselves then you're doing good" or something like that. Of course, a determined soul will find a way, they always do, but at least we (and the admin) won't be responsible and the forum will live to see another day. A lot of boards are all about member quantity and ads, so they aren't as disciplined. This is my primary board for Electronics because of the discipline. no spam, no flaming, no swearing, just the facts and generally positive dialog and discussion.

If you want to shock the crap out of somebody, google it, and while you're at it, google felony.

 

If you want to shock the crap out of somebody, google it, and while you're at it, google felony.

Agreed. and google "how to make friends in prison"

 

Hello,

I have just been added to the moderators.
I hope to assist you all and have a clean forum.
You can always draw the attention of the forum leaders by using the report button

You can use the button for offending stuff or dangerous things or spam.

Greetings,
Bertus

Hello Bertus,

This is a well deserved and sensible "appointment". I respect your judgement and ever positive attitude to the forum and its members.

Congratulations.

t_n_k

 

I think the best way to approach dangerous subjects is to....
Explain the risks
Explain how to do it
Explain the risks again
Add a disclaimer

 

Then close the thread so some other joker doesn't explain how to do it.

This is the core problem, people like to show off what they know (or think they know). I'm not excluding myself in this.

 

Knowledge is power, to an extreme, of course.... However, as professionals, it can help by utilizing ethical behavior. In my opinion, Modeling the way is the "way to go."

 

Yeah, but the point, Iulian, is to keep someone from hurting themselves or another, not merely to be absolved of blame. All of the above discussion is excellent, and your point is, too.
But just as with chemistry and other sciences, there are certain 'levels of development'. A moderator has to use his/her judgment as to whether the OP is doing something beyond that level, the way an instructor would in a college course. We can't be there to actually lend a hand, so being a little overly cautious is the best course of action!
From transistors at 9V to tubes at 300, there are a series of steps that need to be taken, and it is the responsibility of those who have already gotten there to at least TRY to explain to someone why they should stick with batteries a while longer ;o)

 

In my opinion, the moderators here are doing excellent work. I've been learning from this site for a while now. I have no formal schooling in electronics and I'm greatful for stumbling into this site. It is an extreme asset. My 2 cents is if someone wishes to join and ask such questions, it is not the responsibility of this forum to teach that individual about what is right and wrong. Leaving the thread open might lead another person with the harmful information to join the forum and answer the question- putting the forum in jeopardy. Pulling the thread is the ONLY option.
(p.s. shocking someone is as easy as purchasing one of those electric fly swatters)

 

(p.s. shocking someone is as easy as purchasing one of those electric fly swatters)

Hmmmmm....

 

Hmmmmm....

Believe it or not, I've heard of someone that 'hacked' one of those fly swatters into a walking stick for an old lady who loved to walk her dog, but was bothered by neighbor dogs who would attack. Not any more thanks to the zapping stick. I don't know if that thread would have been closed or not.

 

I just thought your comment was ironic, considering the topic of this thread.

 

that was the point. there are differences in harmless 'gags' and dangerous inventions. the point of the mod's are to distinguish between the two.