I think that was later pointed out to be a glove dropped, or thrown down by the guy in the olive pants. You can see him putting on the other one in the last picture. I guess gloves are procedure. You can also see the guy in red stick it in his back pocket later. If it was a gun it was a rubber one.

I'll be nice and say you are mixed up about this. The picture of the probable dropped work glove to put on medical gloves is here and it looks to be much later than the actual shooting sequence (crime tape is up and the guys pants are down).

What looks to be a glove on the ground. From this angle it's hard to see the exact position of the object IRT the feet.

1:20 gun behind Mr. Red. At 2:25 a pretty clear picture of the gun near Red's foot.

You can see at 1:25 the 'Red' officer keeping the left leg still while reaching for maybe the dropped glove with the gun near officers Red foot.

The guns position near officers foot after glove closer to the victims foot has been picked.

 

as hatters gonna hate, the faithful will perpetuate anything (to put it mildly) they can to describe criminals as angels.

the problem this society has is that we have too many such angels.

 

in this thread no-one is describing the people shot as angles. Maybe they were, maybe they were not. I personally know nothing about them. The point is, they did not have or need to be shot.

Has anyone ever been in this situation - a drunk guy approaches you and tries to make conversation? How do you deal with it? Well, one way is to carefully monitor his behavior and everyone walks away or there will be a quick escalation to an inevitable shouting match and a fight. Who is in control here? It is the situation and the person in charge that matter. Nothing else.

p.s. and I already mentioned critical thinking, it seems extinct now

 

in this thread no-one is describing the people shot as angles. Maybe they were, maybe they were not. I personally know nothing about them. The point is, they did not have or need to be shot.

What? Do you mean Angel? I don't expect them to be Angels not to be shot. I only expect them to act like civilized humans.

 

Nice scenario. Let the cop walk away and someone gets shot by the person the cop walked away from to prevent the murderous police from claiming another life.

Yeah, I'm sure that will fly.

 

The wife yelling "don't you do it" to him caught my attention. She must have known what he was thinking.

IMO the 'wife' should (I know it will never happen) be charged with instigating a riot for the 'it's a book' lies. I have ZERO sympathies for her at this point.

 

I'll be nice and say you are mixed up about this. The picture of the probable dropped work glove to put on medical gloves is here and it looks to be much later than the actual shooting sequence (crime tape is up and the guys pants are down).

What looks to be a glove on the ground. From this angle it's hard to see the exact position of the object IRT the feet.

1:20 gun behind Mr. Red. At 2:25 a pretty clear picture of the gun near Red's foot.

You can see at 1:25 the 'Red' officer keeping the left leg still while reaching for maybe the dropped glove with the gun near officers Red foot.

The guns position near officers foot after glove closer to the victims foot has been picked.

Hmm, yes, I see. Do you see where they took it out of his hands? I isn't there in this one right after he is shot.
Edit:
Need to see how it first appeared.

 

in this thread no-one is describing the people shot as angles.

not in this thread but your dear leader and his MSM do so openly.

a drunk guy approaches you and tries to make conversation?

slight different scenario: a guy approaches you in the dark alley, with something in his hand. how would you react to it?

The difference in your scenario is that you had assumed away the most significant risk that a police officer faces: information asymmetry. They don't know what the other guy is or isn't going to do. As such, they have to react in split second, and sometimes incorrectly.

By stating that the guy is a drunk and he simply wanted to make a conversation, you took out that unknown (to the police officer).

You may not understand that risk, but you should appreciate the fact that those officers deal with it every day and because of it, tragedy happens from time to time.

that's life.

 

The female to male physical attributes can't be ignored by cops or 'civilians' when force is used.

And therein lies a common misnomer - experience (including my own) shows that any advantage conferred by weight and/or 'brute strength' fairly pales in comparison with skill/discipline -- Of course able-bodied physical fitness is essential...

unless you're a Kung-Fu master

Hardly that! Though your quip illustrates the rationale back of my avoidance of the term 'martial arts' -- while effective personal combat incorporates elements of said disciplines to no small extent - such should not be confused with 'exhibition' which being, oddly enough, just that! -- As a taxpayer I have no problem with comprehensive personal combat instruction of law enforcement candidates - nor, IMO, should any citizen desirous of conscientious maintenance of public safety...
While exceptional scenarios may, of course, be constructed, and, indeed, cited - IMO, as a rule use of deadly force against unarmed subjects is indefensible!

The gun is the equalizer

And even as tools 'equalize' disparity of physical attributes so does skillful weaponization of the body itself! -- Were size (body-mass) and brute force significant determining factors (Re: survival) our species could not have 'emerged'! -- Thus it seems reason and its 'handmaiden' discipline are the 'dance partners' that 'brought us' - Are we to allow rationalizations for police brutality 'cut in'

the current EEOC requirements for government law enforcement employees are not voluntary.

How about this? Require all candidates to receive equal training and to meet the same standards? It works quite nicely for private security organizations (wherein "take 'em alive" is not merely good PR but, quite often, a matter of continued personal liberty of the agent{s} involved) -- But then I suppose true (as opposed to 'fiat') equality is asking a bit much of government

As always - Best regards
HP

 

Hmm, yes, I see. Do you see where they took it out of his hands? I isn't there in this one right after he is shot.
Edit:
Need to see how it first appeared.
View attachment 112545

The cops really need to upgrade the resolution (4K would be nice for the prices they pay for junk) of the dash and body cams. The quality of video is crap for later noise reduction and image enhancement processing.

 

And therein lies a common misnomer - experience (including my own) shows that any advantage conferred by weight and/or 'brute strength' fairly pales in comparison with skill/discipline -- Of course able-bodied physical fitness is essential...
...
But then I suppose true (as opposed to 'fiat') equality is asking a bit much of government

As always - Best regards
HP

The problem is you don't have to defeat the opponent with weight or 'brute strength' you only need the required advantage to take their unused gun and kill them with it. This makes hand to hand combat a wrestling match of usually hand vs hand, upper body strength and the ability to pin the person with weight.

I'm 100% with you on equality but that's sadly not the reality today in America.

 

the deplorables must be responsible for that.

Perhaps this will come as an 800kPa over-pressure shock front -- Howbeit I tend to be politically 'right leaning' -- IOW I concur with the import of your 'gibe'

Best regards
HP

 

The cops really need to upgrade the resolution (4K would be nice for the prices they pay for junk) of the dash and body cams. The quality of video is crap for later noise reduction and image enhancement processing.

Yep, maybe we should make an I Phone app. They seem to be working pretty good.
I suspect he had the gun. I just question 2 things:
Why didn't they try to deescalate?
Why not release all the video?

 

not in this thread but your dear leader and his MSM do so openly.

My leader? Please inform me of who that is as I am in the dark here.

Dark alley scenario - I have already expressed my opinion on comparing ordinary citizen's response to that of a policeman. If this is the route we are going, police should be disbanded and volunteer community patrols put in place.

 

The problem is you don't have to defeat the opponent with weight or 'brute strength' you only need the required advantage to take their unused gun and kill them with it.

And again - I assert that experience shows a properly trained/conditioned '98 pound weakling' is as able to retain their 'hardware' (and otherwise 'hold their own') as a 280 pound professional athlete --- Decades long experience of private security providers have amply illustrated this --- There is no (good) reason for the public sector to fall short of the private sector on any --but especially-- the 'security front'...

Disclaimer -- I am not and never have been an employee of a security organization (public or private) -- howbeit I have employed several such organizations over the years - the vetting of which includes exhaustive review of incident reports, etc...

Best regards
HP

 

Yep, maybe we should make an I Phone app. They seem to be working pretty good.
I suspect he had the gun. I just question 2 things:
Why didn't they try to deescalate?
Why not release all the video?

Why didn't they try to deescalate?
Primary because of risk aversion. If you won't drop a loaded gun with at least four cops pointing guns at you then I would seriously question that subjects ability to make rational decision of life and death if you left them alone.

Why not release all the video?
I would assume chain of custody issues in the beginning. I would release it as soon as legally possible.

 

I figure cops are like the general population, 1% are total psychopaths.

I slightly disagree ... most psychopaths seek positions of power where they can unleash their true selves every once in a while. Therefore I think that the psychopath population among cops must be higher than that (though I have no idea by how much, I have to admit) ... same goes for politicians.

 

And again - I assert that experience shows a properly trained/conditioned '98 pound weakling' is as able to retain their 'hardware' (and otherwise 'hold their own') as a 280 pound professional athlete.

I can assert my own personal experience of that generally being bull-crap.

 

This makes hand to hand combat a wrestling match of usually hand vs hand, upper body strength and the ability to pin the person with weight.

FWIW -- Without wishing to enter upon a digression into the 'ways of effective personal combat' - the idea is to prevent it becoming a 'wrestling match' as you describe --- That said, I strongly feel that any candidate being demonstrably incapable of training and/or attainment of the requisite high standards has no place in active-duty law enforcement and should be summarily 'washed out'!

Best regards
HP

 

The problem you describe is a political one. It wasn't until recently that they allowed the fairer sex to compete for those positions that demanded a higher physical readiness.

Read Ashley's war. Even though she volunteered for what was legally a support position, she had to train hard to provide that support as she was at the point of the spear, gathering Intel from afgan women.

In earlier times, Congress did not accept that some protected classes were incapable of doing the job, all the wanted was to fulfill the EEOC standards. So some standards were changed for women.

Now, no one in the equality crowd complained about the different standards, so it became the norm, with the last holdout on same standards were the combat operations.

I have been of the belief that if they can do the job, good for them. If a white, black, tan, yellow, or polka dotted person cant hack the mission, they need to seek other employment.

Others don't share my opine, especially those testifying before congress and their next promotion is approved by the Senate.

Why did OSHA set the standard for one person carry at 50 pounds?