Periodically there are debates within these forums about how questions or answers should be presented (schematics, level of detail, how much background info needs to be shared, etc) and they often get somewhat adversarial. There's one aspect of the value of these forums that I feel is often neglected in those discussions.

When a question is asked, or problem presented, it's sometimes treated as if we're just solving that one problem for that one person, as if it's just a conversion between the thread starter and the few participants that join in any given discussion. To me, that seems a little, dare I say, selfish.

At its best, this forum is a great resource for countless readers, not just for the thread starter or the participants. There might be 20, or 50, or hundreds of people who read a thread, even if only a few participate. Many of those readers are here to learn, even if they're not ready to contribute. I know I personally read at least ten times as many threads as I participate in. I've learned so much in these forums, and only a small portion of that was from questions I asked or from others' questions that I helped answer.

It's largely for the benefit of all those readers that I think it's especially valuable for us to include schematics, datasheets, app notes, pictures, etc. Sure, I'll admit that sometimes there's a question that could be asked quickly and easily with a little technical jargon, no schematic, and few details, but then the question and answer provide limited benefit, and to a much smaller community. Adding the related context and references makes the thread accessible and useful for a much wider audience.

I think these forums have huge potential to be a resource for a diverse pool of electronics enthusiasts at all levels. It's my personal opinion that anyone seeking to get the direct benefit of having their own personal questions answered here could/should include whatever details and references will make the question easier for all to understand, so that more people benefit from the answers.

P.S. I imagine that there's a more appropriate sub-forum to place this topic in, but I've deliberately posted it in "general electronics chat" to start because it's where I spend the largest portion of my time and where I know more of the regular contributors. I won't resist or protest if the mods want to move it to a different sub-forum.

 

It really doesn't matter what people seeking to have their questions answered SHOULD post -- what we will always get is what they DO post. There's no effective way to enforce what you would like to see. About the only way would be to have every thread moderated and for it to not go public until it passes muster. Not only is there no where near the necessary moderation staff for that, but the vast majority of people that come here for help probably wouldn't go through the hassle just to ask what, in their mind, is a "simple" question.

 

It really doesn't matter what people seeking to have their questions answered SHOULD post -- what we will always get is what they DO post. There's no effective way to enforce what you would like to see. About the only way would be to have every thread moderated and for it to not go public until it passes muster. Not only is there no where near the necessary moderation staff for that, but the vast majority of people that come here for help probably wouldn't go through the hassle just to ask what, in their mind, is a "simple" question.

Well of course I'm not suggesting an enforceable standard or rigid requirement. I was more interested in promoting a slightly different version of the ideal we strive for.

The moderators and regular contributors DO often steer people in different directions regarding safety, communication styles, best practices, etc. This post was merely my suggestion for a subtle change in the ideals we might strive for. I'm not suggesting we set hard limits or hold anyone accountable for anything.

 

Well of course I'm not suggesting an enforceable standard or rigid requirement. I was more interested in promoting a slightly different version of the ideal we strive for.

The moderators and regular contributors DO often steer people in different directions regarding safety, communication styles, best practices, etc. This post was merely my suggestion for a subtle change in the ideals we might strive for. I'm not suggesting we set hard limits or hold anyone accountable for anything.

Okay. So what is the difference between the ideals you are recommending that we strive for compared to the current posted guidelines (which, by the way, few people have ever bothered to read and that's not going to change, either)?

 

I think that at the very least we should be asking for the objective and the context in which the question is put. The questioner need to ask them selves if a we as complete strangers have any idea of what their intention is.
Engineering naivety is not to be criticized- we do not want to put off would be engineers and hobbyists.

I was thinking we could add a set of check boxes that must be ticked before a new thread can be started:

eg project objective:: current problem::circuit diagram demonstrating problem:perating conditions:: etc

 

An information that is often missing is where on the globe the thread starter comes from.

I'm pretty new here at the forum, and I think only a week went by before I added where in the world I am live.

 

It's largely for the benefit of all those readers that I think it's especially valuable for us to include schematics, datasheets, app notes, pictures, etc.

People who show up here asking for help are already advised to do that, in the PLEASE READ post stickied at the very top of this sub-forum. If they aren't going to bother reading it and following its advice, I don't know what more we could possibly do.

 

Okay. So what is the difference between the ideals you are recommending that we strive for compared to the current posted guidelines (which, by the way, few people have ever bothered to read and that's not going to change, either)?

I think the current guidelines (which I did read when I first started here, and which I just read again before replying to you now) are good. I'm not saying that the moderators, or this forum in general, are doing anything wrong. I'm not proposing new rules, regulations, restrictions, or even guidelines. In fact I'd be quite wary of anything that makes this forum less accessible to beginners. My whole point here is about it being an important resource for beginners. I was just trying to offer a perspective that appears to be lacking in some threads, sometimes.

Perhaps an analogy will help.

Imagine a few engineers having a beer at the local pub, talking shop. They might discuss engineering problems in very technical terms that only other engineers could understand. They might make friendly jabs at each other over any mistake, or perhaps not-so-friendly jabs if they had a history of quibbling over things. They might even get riled up and fight over things for no apparent reason. No one would think much of this, cause that's pretty reasonable behavior at the pub.

Now let's imagine those same engineers are put in front of a classroom of middle school students who are interested in learning more about electronics. They'd probably (hopefully?) try to discuss their problems in more approachable terms, so that the students could learn from their experience. Ideally, they'd handle their disagreements in a civil way, trying to set a good example for the students. They would just generally govern themselves quite differently for the sake of the students.

I think this forum is, and should be, much more like the classroom than the pub. I think when we're communicating, we should imagine that there are large numbers of impressionable people watching, because there probably are. I think that many threads discussing not-quite-beginner level issues will benefit a much wider audience if they include just a little bit of context and supporting references than if they're posed in the most concise, abbreviated form possible.

I think a LOT of people here already do exactly what I'm asking for. They treat everyone with respect, they fill in background details, provide references, help catch people up on fundamentals, and they never exclude anyone based on their inexperience. Those people are what drew me into these forums and set a good example for me. I started this thread as my attempt to encourage more of that kind of behavior, and to give a slightly different perspective on why I value it (not to generate rules!)

 

I'll add there seems to be few students looking for someone to do their homework, a trait I detest.
Also why I stopped participating in a similar forum.
I've been doing this >40yrs and appreciate the opportunity to provide suggestions to help "spread the wealth".

 

People who show up here asking for help are already advised to do that, in the PLEASE READ post stickied at the very top of this sub-forum. If they aren't going to bother reading it and following its advice, I don't know what more we could possibly do.

I’ve encountered a different approach at Stackoverflow. I go there fairly often because it’s a tremendous source of coding help. Questions there (and answers) receive up or downvotes. They are also scrutinized for similarities to questions already asked.

If you don’t search and do your homework first, to ask a properly documented question that isn’t identical to one already addressed, you’re almost sure to get a ruthless treatment.

It’s definitely more daunting for a noob but as I said, it ends up with a high quality forum.

 

It’s definitely more daunting for a noob but as I said, it ends up with a high quality forum.

Yes, the outcome is good but I quit asking questions when I perceived that there are too many "patrolmen" dedicated to nitpicking on your posts. In the forum dedicated to electronics, mostly of those who contribute positively are friendly and more laid back people. Life is too short to force myself to deal with all that.

 

Yes, the outcome is good but I quit asking questions when I perceived that there are too many "patrolmen" dedicated to nitpicking on your posts. In the forum dedicated to electronics, mostly of those who contribute positively are friendly and more laid back people. Life is too short to force myself to deal with all that.

I agree that the moods are very different between here and there. It comes down to the goals and purpose of the forum. If I'm working on something and need an answer, frankly I'm far more likely to go to a well-regulated, professional forum such as stack overflow. With minimal searching I can find what I need, often with some decent documentation. If I'm just hanging out and chatting like we are in this thread, well, I don't think they do that over there. No offense to all my colleagues around here, but frankly it can be quite difficult to find what you need if you've come here with a specific question. That's partly because of the diverse nature of the topics, but also because of the way things are run here.

 

The basic message here is start a thread and post replies knowing that there is a very wide audience, people with a wide range of knowledge and backgrounds, and people with little interest and lots of interest in your topic.

Secondly, when starting a thread, don't assume anything. Don't think that you can focus on a very specific problem in your project and we don't need to know all the gory details. Yes, tell us the gory details.

Yes, please tell us the big picture at the very start. We don't want to play a game of 101 question and answers.
Yes, post a circuit schematic.
Yes, post photographs where applicable.
Yes, tell us the make and model number. We should not have to ask.
Yes, provide a link to a service manual so that we don't have to search for it for you.
Yes, tell us more than "It doesn't work". Tell us what it is supposed to do, what it is not doing, what it is doing instead.
Yes, assume that any solution found would be useful to someone else in the future. Don't just reply "Thanks folks, problem solved". Tell us how you solved the problem.

 

To the original poster, This forum as I have seen it are good to "noobs". If you are reading a thread that is hard to understand, ask questions to help you understand what is going on. It certainly won't sound like homework help and from what I've seen on this forum these guys(Including gals) are good at explaining. If there was a question I Could help with it would encourage me to post more often.