Oui, c'est parfait, vous gangez!would you accept this:
source: http://www.word-detective.com/042702.html (probably not so credible but seems to agree with the dictionary)
Oui, c'est parfait, vous gangez!would you accept this:
source: http://www.word-detective.com/042702.html (probably not so credible but seems to agree with the dictionary)
If you cite real astronomers and astrophysicists, then it will count. When the citation comes from real scientific journals peer reviewed by other real scientists, then it will count even more. When you cite creationist theorists (i.e. views based on a particular brand of religion), you only reveal your ignorance about what a proper scientific citation is. A search of Barry Setterfield on GoogleScholar reveals that he has never published anything in a real scientific journal. There is this Journal of Theoretics nonsense and then web sites that anyone can make.I guess this paper siting astronomers and astrophysicist that were peer-reviewed won't count either? http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Links/Papers/Setter.pdf
I think it would be more correct to say you must be aware of science, or be willing to listen with an open mind to evidence you may not have heard before.warning - to post in the physics forum, you must be a scientist or play one on the web!
You have no logical standpoint here. The man is not the issue, but the ideas are the issue. I did read the reference and can find no reasonable logic in the ideas, other than it is a poor attempt to make existing data match his own personal interpretation of what the bible says the age of the universe is. You seem to be saying that all a person has to do to prove his own ideas is to refer to good scientific papers. The fact that what he published has nothing to do with a sensible interpretation of those papers seems to escape you.Though the man that published the paper may not be up to your standards the papers sited should have been. He compiled it from real scientific journals,by real scientists, if you had read it, which its obvious that you didn't.
Common sense always dominates a conversation when the other side is illogic. When scientists reject religious arguments and illogical conclusions they are not being closed minded, but are trying to do science. Open-mindedness is needed for examining new potential theories that have not been proven or disproven yet, not to allow nonsense in to confuse the issues. We are all interested in and willing to discuss new and useful ideas that might lead to better theories, descriptions and explanations.Your total ability to dominate a conversation is only eclipsed by your closed mindedness.
I don't know of any scientist that thinks our current theories have all the answers. In fact, it's just the opposite. We know there are so many unresolved issues and know that a new major revolution in physics is needed to go to the next level. If that's the point you are trying to make, then you are preaching to the choir, hence referencing creationist propaganda is unnecessary and counterproductive.The only thing that I was hoping to get out of this was that what you guys tout as the whole end all be all can also be something else. Using just one set of rules when there are other explanations known and even as of yet unknown can not explain everything. Just admitting that what is known now is the best guess of the workings of the universe, is too much for "real scientists" I guess.
OK, you are not a creationist. You only quote their propaganda to make your points. I'll make a note of that for the futureAnd I'm NOT a creationist.
My own view on this is that (so far) science has not explained anything. It only describes the universe (as best it can). This is what science does, by it's very nature. Believing that science can explain creation in its true sense does take faith because it is believing that science can someday do something it has never done in the past.On the topic of creation, isn't the big bang theory bordering on creationism?
Like everything was there, in a point, then "bang" it all popped out and suddenly the universe was created? It's a practically identical leap of faith believing that an entity created the universe or that a "bang" created the universe. It leaves the same unanswered philosophical questions; What was there before the creation? Why did it happen then and not sooner or later? Why is everything moving away from US (like we are still the centre of God's universe)?
Not so long ago clever people believed "all the evidence" agreed with the creation theory. Now people are more sophisticated and have better evidence, and are adopting what is really just a different creation theory. I think man has a need to believe in a beginning...
Yes and no. The Big Bang can also be expressed as "In the beginning, God said "Let there be light!". And there was light.
[offtopic]
Don't think the scientific Big Bang theory has anything to do with creationism.
Its just a logical conclusion on following the path of a expanding universe back into the past. Its not saying anything about what might have been the trigger. Let alone if that trigger was a intentional act of some other intelligence.
And ... In my view its this last part that is the main classification if something is a creationist view/idea/etc. (intentionally act in favor of the ultimate creation and existent of the believer in question.)
... Clever and/or sophistication arguments are not only limited to one side and its also not saying anything about the quality or correctness of the arguments. ...
[/offtopic]
Yes and no. The Big Bang can also be expressed as "In the beginning, God said "Let there be light!". And there was light.
After that opinions and time lines diverge enormously. I always lean towards science myself.
Oooohhhhh! I just noticed this. No! Wrong! Really, really wrong! But you meant that, right? I'm sure you did, but have you ever really found someone that believed this?-If you stand close to a rock band you hear all the frequencies equally. If you stand a mile away you only hear the bass frequencies. Red shift.
by Jake Hertz
by Aaron Carman
by Aaron Carman