Hello guys!

What do you think of this topic? Let's see it from two perspectives:

1) How well defined is the process and method of an electronic product development? If I tell you, I have this idea of a watch that I talk to and it turns on the stereo at home. Would you know how to convert that idea into a working, sellable prototype?

2) Would you know what measures or steps to take to make sure your product is as sustainable it can be?

Thank you!!

 

What do you think of this topic?

It leaves me scratching my head wondering what in the heck "sustainable development" is.

 

The process is neither well defined nor predictable. I don't believe that anything electronic fits the definition of sustainable. The toxic substances required for semiconductor manufacturing are a nightmare, not to mention the enormous volume of non-degradeable waste. This whole notion is a complete red herring.

 

Hello guys!

What do you think of this topic? Let's see it from two perspectives:

1) How well defined is the process and method of an electronic product development? If I tell you, I have this idea of a watch that I talk to and it turns on the stereo at home. Would you know how to convert that idea into a working, sellable prototype?

Someone beat you to it.


Lots of luck with trying to make it "sustainable". Do you plan on making it from recycled bottles or something?

 

Hello guys!

What do you think of this topic? Let's see it from two perspectives:

1) How well defined is the process and method of an electronic product development? If I tell you, I have this idea of a watch that I talk to and it turns on the stereo at home. Would you know how to convert that idea into a working, sellable prototype?

2) Would you know what measures or steps to take to make sure your product is as sustainable it can be?

Thank you!!

Define sustainable.

Is it sustainable because I telecommute and I don't need to fill up my gas tank twice per week for a 40-minute commute each way.

Is it sustainable when it uses a bunch of methyl-ethyl-death to produce but, for the next 5-years, the product can help thousands of people check if their stereo is on and tell it to turn off and save all of that energy from the stereo.

So, define sustainable.

 

...
Is it sustainable when it uses a bunch of methyl-ethyl-death to produce ...

I remember that stuff! We called it "Hex-flexa-Oh-my..."

 

the product can help thousands of people check if their stereo is on and tell it to turn off and save all of that energy from the stereo.

You misunderstood. The energy saved is that which is required to walk to the stereo and press the power switch.

 

I remember that stuff! We called it "Hex-flexa-Oh-my..."

You misunderstood. The energy saved is that which is required to walk to the stereo and press the power switch.

I thought it was the energy saved when the user's watch notifies him that he left the stereo on and he can just say "turn off stereo" instead of driving home from the Poconos to turn it off. That way, he can claim sustainable savings of all of the electricity for the balance of the weekend AND the gas money to return home from the Poconos.

 

I thought it was the energy saved when the user's watch notifies him that he left the stereo on and he can just say "turn off stereo" instead of driving home from the Poconos to turn it off. That way, he can claim sustainable savings of all of the electricity for the balance of the weekend AND the gas money to return home from the Poconos.

Sounds like you are "speaking" from experience?

 

It leaves me scratching my head wondering what in the heck "sustainable development" is.

In this context it means developing a product that it is energy efficient, uses materials from recyclable sources or it can be recycled after end of life, uses materials that are not harmful for the environment, powered by renewable energies...

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Lots of luck with trying to make it "sustainable". Do you plan on making it from recycled bottles or something? [/QUOTE]

I am not trying to make that watch xD it was just an example that came out of my mind. And yes, what I mean with making it sustainable is about the developing process and how you include recycled materials (your plastic bottles) into the product

 

In this context it means developing a product that it is energy efficient, uses materials from recyclable sources or it can be recycled after end of life, uses materials that are not harmful for the environment, powered by renewable energies...

2) Would you know what measures or steps to take to make sure your product is as sustainable it can be?

Start with unicorn farts.

 

I thought it was the energy saved when the user's watch notifies him that he left the stereo on and he can just say "turn off stereo" instead of driving home from the Poconos to turn it off. That way, he can claim sustainable savings of all of the electricity for the balance of the weekend AND the gas money to return home from the Poconos.

Ok ok, let's clarify. I am not saying the watch is to save energy, that was just an example of an electronic product. What I meant as more regarding if the watch itself as a prodcut is sustainable (materials used, is it efficient?, end of life strategy..)

 

Ok ok, let's clarify. I am not saying the watch is to save energy, that was just an example of an electronic product. What I meant as more regarding if the watch itself as a prodcut is sustainable (materials used, is it efficient?, end of life strategy..)

You didn't clarify at all. all you did was make things even more confusing.

Exactly where are you going to get these materials? Are you going to manufacture your own micro controllers and other components?

And what impact is your said watch going to make on the environment assuming you can manufacture it? Around .00001%?

 

You didn't clarity at all. all you did was make things even more confusing.

Exactly where are you going to get these materials? Are you going to manufacture your own micro controllers and other components?

And what impact is your said watch going to make on the environment assuming you can manufacture it? Around .00001%?

In the hypotetical example I want to design this watch, I will try to get the materials from local sources, RoHS compliant components and recyclable if possible at end of life. Manufacture MCU's? Doesn't seem very practical, it would be better if the MCU manufacturers follow sustianable principles as well therefore you get a component that to your knowledge has been design and manufactured with sustainability in mind. It is obvious that the stand alone impact will be neglible, like if only one person in the neighborhood recycles its beer bottles. The idea is that you achieve the power of scale by getting a lot of people to do it...

 

Ok ok, let's clarify. I am not saying the watch is to save energy, that was just an example of an electronic product. What I meant as more regarding if the watch itself as a prodcut is sustainable (materials used, is it efficient?, end of life strategy..)

They are all unnecessary convenience gadgets. The best way to make the "sustainable" is to not make them at all.

Think about this, A bottled water company introduced a new "sustainable" plastic bottle that uses 20% less plastic. Think of the savings! Less plastic to buy, less to dispose benefit for everyone. Now, once they start shipping the product they realize that the bottle is so weak that they cannot stack pallets, so instead of shipping around the region in trucks with product stacked three pallets high, they have to ship with only one layer of pallets placed flat on the truck floor. Virtually the same amount of time and fuel to move the truck but 1/3 of the product could be stacked in the truck. Time for a new sustainability calculation - how much are we saving? Ok, redesign the bottle with more reinforcement, scrap all of the signs showing the first sustainable bottle, print new signs with the second version of the bottle. Oops, signs still say 20% but it is more like 12%. Reprint the signs. We can only stack two pallets high or we get some damaged bottles. How many are damaged? About 8%. We'll keep stacking 3 high and write off the 8% damages. Why can't we use the original bottle. Marketing won't let us change, they spent too much on advertising already.

Enjoy working on sustainability. If you don't look at "cradle-to-grave" of all aspects (from mining the raw products and pumping the oil, transporting, using, energy during use, production and disposal of consumables, collection and sorting of the end-of-life waste, transporting and final placement or energy to "reuse/recycle" the waste.

Do you realize how much energy is spent collecting, sorting and transporting empty soda and water bottles? Way more than the energy content and possible environmental damage that they could cause. Imagine, all that dirty diesel fuel burned just to make people feel good when they throw away a plastic bottle. A bottle that can be completely avoided if they would just pull a glass out of the cupboard and fill it with tap water.

If you elect not to do cradle to grave analyses of sustainability, you are wasting the time of all the people around you and the fuel you use to drive to and from work is simply adding to the lie of the benefits of sustainability - marketing hogwash.

 

In the hypotetical example I want to design this watch, I will try to get the materials from local sources, RoHS compliant components and recyclable if possible at end of life.

So you want to have a bunch of locally produced chips and PCBs for your locally sourced free-range device? Do you realize that each additional manufacturer, you risk another case of mis-Management of manufacturing waste and another potential SupeFund site? Also, the economy of scale resulting from large scale manufacturing means fewer points of emissions (valves, pump seals, packaging lines, ...). Home grown small batch manufacturers will lead to the smog currently suffered in China. Do you realize the Chinese government is finally cracking down on these cottage industry factories. They shut down 250,000 chemical manufacturing sites in 2015-2016.

What is your expertise and goal?

 

They are all unnecessary convenience gadgets. The best way to make the "sustainable" is to not make them at all.

Think about this, A bottled water company introduced a new "sustainable" plastic bottle that uses 20% less plastic. Think of the savings! Less plastic to buy, less to dispose benefit for everyone. Now, once they start shipping the product they realize that the bottle is so weak that they cannot stack pallets, so instead of shipping around the region in trucks with product stacked three pallets high, they have to ship with only one layer of pallets placed flat on the truck floor. Virtually the same amount of time and fuel to move the truck but 1/3 of the product could be stacked in the truck. Time for a new sustainability calculation - how much are we saving? Ok, redesign the bottle with more reinforcement, scrap all of the signs showing the first sustainable bottle, print new signs with the second version of the bottle. Oops, signs still say 20% but it is more like 12%. Reprint the signs. We can only stack two pallets high or we get some damaged bottles. How many are damaged? About 8%. We'll keep stacking 3 high and write off the 8% damages. Why can't we use the original bottle. Marketing won't let us change, they spent too much on advertising already.

Enjoy working on sustainability. If you don't look at "cradle-to-grave" of all aspects (from mining the raw products and pumping the oil, transporting, using, energy during use, production and disposal of consumables, collection and sorting of the end-of-life waste, transporting and final placement or energy to "reuse/recycle" the waste.

Do you realize how much energy is spent collecting, sorting and transporting empty soda and water bottles? Way more than the energy content and possible environmental damage that they could cause. Imagine, all that dirty diesel fuel burned just to make people feel good when they throw away a plastic bottle. A bottle that can be completely avoided if they would just pull a glass out of the cupboard and fill it with tap water.

If you elect not to do cradle to grave analyses of sustainability, you are wasting the time of all the people around you and the fuel you use to drive to and from work is simply adding to the lie of the benefits of sustainability - marketing hogwash.

Good! So from your hipotetycal analysis of plastic bottles you are concluding that in order to have a meaningful impact in the sustainability of a product you have to do the full cradle-to grave analysis, rather than just focusing on a small part of the life of the product and sell that bit as the whole product is sustainable. Thanks for the input.

So what is your opinion about this approach in the electronics industry? Do you think is embbeded in the design process? What is required for that?

Thanks!

So you want to have a bunch of locally produced chips and PCBs for your locally sourced free-range device? Do you realize that each additional manufacturer, you risk another case of mis-Management of manufacturing waste and another potential SupeFund site? Also, the economy of scale resulting from large scale manufacturing means fewer points of emissions (valves, pump seals, packaging lines, ...). Home grown small batch manufacturers will lead to the smog currently suffered in China. Do you realize the Chinese government is finally cracking down on these cottage industry factories. They shut down 250,000 chemical manufacturing sites in 2015-2016.

What is your expertise and goal?

Free range PCB xD? does that mean that they have organic resistors and non-GMO transistors soldered on the boards?

My goal is to find out if there are principles of sustainable design that an electronic engineer can apply to its work in order to produce more sustainable products (like the free range PCBs and home grown micro controllers )

 

Good! So from your hipotetycal analysis of plastic bottles you are concluding that in order to have a meaningful impact in the sustainability of a product you have to do the full cradle-to grave analysis, rather than just focusing on a small part of the life of the product and sell that bit as the whole product is sustainable. Thanks for the input.

So what is your opinion about this approach in the electronics industry? Do you think is embbeded in the design process? What is required for that?

Thanks!

If you would understand anything about the chemical industry, bridge building industry or electronics industry, is that the goal is and always has been to
- reduce the amount of raw materials used because more materials cost more than less materials
- recycle as much product as possible from pre-consumer to post-consumer if it makes money.
- if something is not affordable in large scale, it is not likely an energy efficient decision.
- if a waste has value, it is already getting recycled (companies are not stupid)
- if you don't want plastic bottles stacking up in a landfill, charge more money (or raise taxes) to prevent people from buying plastic bottles. Don't come up with some make-work program that uses MORE fuel to collect and make crap out of the bottles.

 

Hello guys!

What do you think of this topic? Let's see it from two perspectives:

1) How well defined is the process and method of an electronic product development? If I tell you, I have this idea of a watch that I talk to and it turns on the stereo at home. Would you know how to convert that idea into a working, sellable prototype?

2) Would you know what measures or steps to take to make sure your product is as sustainable it can be?

Thank you!!

If I had the answer I wouldn't give it for free since I don't see this as an emergency.

 

- if a waste has value, it is already getting recycled (companies are not stupid)

An engineer was given the task of finding a company to take contaminated Freon cleaning solution for disposal. The employee person that had been handling the disposal had left the company.

He could not find anyone that would take money to haul the Freon off. He was confused by this since this was not a new problem. What he found out was that companies paid for the spent Freon instead of charging to remove it.