Static electricity, it's all capacitance?

KL7AJ

Joined Nov 4, 2008
2,226
There are huge numbers of 'free electrons' in conductors but they are not spare in the sense that it takes 'work' to separate or move them in a non-random fashion like current in a wire or as ions. That 'work' could be from the sun or the initial formation of the solar system so it's very possible that a planet or moon sized object locally would have a net charge but there is actually no way to define the net charge of the (closed or spatially infinite) universe so effectively the net charge is zero.

"To weigh something one needs a platform on which to stand to do the weighing."
Very good point....and pretty much what I was trying to convey.
 

KL7AJ

Joined Nov 4, 2008
2,226
And a follow up question: Are there protons wandering around, not attached to electrons, and thus not making a hydrogen atom?
Yes there are....especially during a coronal mass ejection.
By the way....there is a school of thought that Northern hemisphere Auroras are basically electron auroras, while Aurora Australis is basically proton auroras. We CAN measure electron precipitation during an aurora up here with very simple electroscopes.....not sure what they see down south. HOWEVER, since at least the 1950s they have known that southern auroras are frequently precise mirror images of northern auroras....they have photographic evidence. Cool stuff actually
 

BR-549

Joined Sep 22, 2013
4,938
The solar wind is fairly clean charge. There are some nuclei with it ......but something like 95-98% is just protons and electrons. It's been a while, but isn't there a lot more protons than electrons in the wind?

That should leave the sun -. But that don't make sense. Maybe it's a detection error/problem. Or maybe one charge is emitted equatorial and one in polar direction.

Wouldn't all that charge constitute a changing electric field thru-out our solar system.

These charges do not appear to interact with each other while under acceleration.......but what few ones are caught by earth's field.....seem to. They are separated into + and - radiation belts. These belts interact with earth's field to form an active shield. This shield appears to be in a state of low frequency resonance.

The electrical part of this system appears a lot more active than the gravitational.

If only we could collect the solar wind as easily as the solar light.

Maybe we could induce and control current with the space shield....at the magnetic poles.
 

Janis59

Joined Aug 21, 2017
1,232
1)About capacitance I may add only that one of my students was deep into Tesla coil affairs, and he was very convinced that formula for capacitance calculation gives 3...10 times mistake into comparison with measured by resonance method data if we consider two plates what are relatively far away versus it dimensions. He wrote even about his extensive measurement series, but somehow article was not published. The same if measure capacitance of two balls. Sorry I have no in memory was the C larger or smaller than calculated, but just - if produce such device, be aware that You shall get sth slightly other as designed.
2)About triboelectricity I may add that our common sense that it are very high V and microamperes of I is not right in the case of conductors. American storage ring facilities for their accelerators use an innovative high current low voltage generator on triboelectricity basis, on copper rollgangs, giving several milivolts but only slightly under megaampere current.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
7,745
I find there is usually a reverse relationship between understanding the physics of electricity and Tesla fanboydom. The more you know the less you believe in his unscientific theories.
 

BR-549

Joined Sep 22, 2013
4,938
Those unscientific theories of Tesla have improved the lives of every person on this planet.

Much, much, much, much more than Einstein could ever begin to.
Einstein's theories will be proven wrong. Time and space are not variable.

I think Tesla recognized the resonance of earth with our radiation charge/magnetic belts. He probably didn't understand this system......but he understood real electrical resonance and thought he could tap it.

It would be a mistake to think that his last theories and ramblings were nonsense. Just because some of his predictions........that we now know can't be done and are wrong...........doesn't mean they were not scientific. And we see very long particle beams in our atmosphere all the time. It's called lightening.

He was using the know references at the time. It's quite possible that if he had been funded.......he might have discovered the proper references.......and science would be much different now. Tesla didn't look to math for answers. He was a mechanic......he related force/counter force and direction. Regardless of the funded success....new discoveries would have been made. He was a builder...a doer. Take a look at some of his mechanical work. He was a true artist.

He has high stature in my mind.
 

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
7,849
Those unscientific theories of Tesla have improved the lives of every person on this planet.

Much, much, much, much more than Einstein could ever begin to.
Einstein's theories will be proven wrong. Time and space are not variable.

I think Tesla recognized the resonance of earth with our radiation charge/magnetic belts. He probably didn't understand this system......but he understood real electrical resonance and thought he could tap it.

It would be a mistake to think that his last theories and ramblings were nonsense. Just because some of his predictions........that we now know can't be done and are wrong...........doesn't mean they were not scientific. And we see very long particle beams in our atmosphere all the time. It's called lightening.

He was using the know references at the time. It's quite possible that if he had been funded.......he might have discovered the proper references.......and science would be much different now. Tesla didn't look to math for answers. He was a mechanic......he related force/counter force and direction. Regardless of the funded success....new discoveries would have been made. He was a builder...a doer. Take a look at some of his mechanical work. He was a true artist.

He has high stature in my mind.
Hi,

Einstein changed more about the theory of reality than anyone before him or after him so far. His theories are still around today.

Tesla was an inventor more than anything else, and invented things that we could use in everyday life. HIs inventions are still around today.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
7,745
Hi,

Einstein changed more about the theory of reality than anyone before him or after him so far. His theories are still around today.

Tesla was an inventor more than anything else, and invented things that we could use in everyday life. HIs inventions are still around today.
Tesla spent his entire life working on electromagnetism within the framework of prerelativistic theories, such as aether theories and a concept according to which "all space is filled with a gaseous substance." Einstein's theory of reality as the basis for electromagnetism was completely beyond Tesla's mental framework.

In a 1935 interview Tesla says: "He has measured cosmic ray velocities from Antarus ... which he found to be fifty times greater than the speed of light..."

https://www.scribd.com/document/357920603/Tesla-vs-Einstein
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
7,745
The chances of super speed....is a lot more viable than time or length change.
Tell that to your GPS that uses GR and SR to correct for speed and mass changing time exactly according Einstein's theory. Einstein's theory is also compatible to Maxwell's equations with Relativity corrections that verify the speed of light and quantify the capacitance of free space needed for static electricity.
http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html
The combination of these two relativitic effects means that the clocks on-board each satellite should tick faster than identical clocks on the ground by about 38 microseconds per day (45-7=38)! This sounds small, but the high-precision required of the GPS system requires nanosecond accuracy, and 38 microseconds is 38,000 nanoseconds. If these effects were not properly taken into account, a navigational fix based on the GPS constellation would be false after only 2 minutes, and errors in global positions would continue to accumulate at a rate of about 10 kilometers each day! The whole system would be utterly worthless for navigation in a very short time.
 

BR-549

Joined Sep 22, 2013
4,938
We been thru this before.....following Maxwell's equations is why Einstein was wrong.

Modern equations describe EFFECT.......not AFFECT. That's why you guys keep running around in circles.
You're always at the ass end. Saying GPS proves time change is like saying galaxy movement proves dark matter.

It's kindergarten intellect.

There is only one physical entity in this universe. You call it charge, but you do not know what is is.

It has a physical structure, It is a linear force, confined to rotation by an angular reactive force. There is no math and no information.....only force and counter-force that gives us geometry.

All force, all structures and all events are caused by charge. It's the only physical thing in existence.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
7,745
Run away now.
I'm running on a push-rod. :D
BR-549 said:
Solid matter has the property of instantaneous translation, AND therefore, instantaneous information transfer, and instantaneous force and therefore power transfer.

When I push a push-rod, whether the push-rod is 1 foot long or a light year long, The time is the same, no matter the distance.

The push-rod has not been taught modern science.
Derp...

https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/...-einstein-minkowski.112849/page-2#post-890373

https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/can-i-send-a-signal-faster-than-light-by-pushing-a-rigid-rod/
 
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BR-549

Joined Sep 22, 2013
4,938
Comprehension problems too. I guess I need to slow down for some. You need to concentrate more on my comments. I try to warn everyone that if you use modern definitions to follow me....it will not make sense....because the modern fundamentals are wrong.

My comments are only true if you use the proper fundamentals.

Some are capable of clearing their minds and looking from a different perspective......and some are not.

Engineering will settle this dispute......not my elemental reasoning..... OR your sophisticated math.

I am confident in my position........math and information are not natural.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
7,745
I am confident in my position........math and information are not natural.
I normally wouldn't waste my time with your personal theories but it's possible because this is the Physics area instead of the Something Weird thread some poor kid might actually believe the nonsense you write.

So this has been a Public Service Announcement.
 

BR-549

Joined Sep 22, 2013
4,938
Do you mean things like teaching children that the earth and other planets obit in an elliptic? (Every stable orbit is two rotations. A small perpendicular rotation within the orbital rotation.)

Do you mean things like the earth's axis is tilted? (The earth's axis is always perpendicular to the sun's surface.)

How bout that an electric field propagates to infinity? (That would require infinite power.)

Positive charge flow is a good one too. (positive charge can not follow ohm's law.)

What about handedness and how fundamental it is..........it is the cause of asymmetry.....without it there would be no interaction or bonding....only annihilation.

What about over one hundred components that make matter? (Dissolving fragments, not particles.)

Does your physics make sense to you? Do you actually believe that? Do you believe that physical structure is impossible at small scale? (we go to smaller scales every year. AND EVERY TIME...we find that structure gives properties!!!!!!!)

Do physics know what scale is? Scale is not length.....the scale setter is time.

Who is misinforming who?
 

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
7,849
Tell that to your GPS that uses GR and SR to correct for speed and mass changing time exactly according Einstein's theory. Einstein's theory is also compatible to Maxwell's equations with Relativity corrections that verify the speed of light and quantify the capacitance of free space needed for static electricity.
http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html

Hi,

Sorry i could not give that 10 likes as they only allow one here :)
 

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
7,849
The chances of super speed....is a lot more viable than time or length change.
Hi,

Sorry but i just have to ask, where are you getting your information from?
Time dilation has been proven. If you have any real proof to the contrary, then you should present it, but first you may want to explain how they messed up the experiments to prove that there was such a thing. We would all like to see this. Remember if you have an incredible claim you need to show incredible evidence. Saying that time dilation is not true is an incredible claim due to the experiments done in the past that show that it is true. We see it incorporated into technology too in these modern times. We also see it in astronomy.
I wont say you are wrong just yet, but i will ask for that incredible proof in order to believe your theory, and a set of experiments that show that theory is correct.

Quote:
"How bout that an electric field propagates to infinity? (That would require infinite power.)"

Why would you dispute that the field extends out to infinity? That is Classical theory that depends on an implied infinitely small probably unreal particle. If you want to go into quantum theory you get the same result to within the required accuracy with more realistic particle size.

In Classical theory that is valid because the fields drop off so fast, as 1/r^2, so there is no infinite power. This has been done and done and done in the calculations for mutual inductance. In quantum theory you would get the same result because at a certain distance the field is so low it is no longer contributing significantly to the calculation result. So in both theories there will not be infinite energy required.
 
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