Seems like this topic keeps popping up so what's the thoughts on who does or does not work where and why for how much.

Go nuts!

 

That is a hot political thing. Why make trouble because it popped up in one recent thread? In fact, why make trouble period?

John

 

That is a hot political thing. Why make trouble because it popped up in one recent thread? In fact, why make trouble period?

John

What trouble? Good solutions are found when options are proposed, what-if scenarios are analyzed and new alternatives created and the process started over and over again until a very good solution is found, or until one of the debaters starts slinging personal insults. Stay out of you have a weak spin or just sit on the sidelines and watch if you are the type who slows down to gawk at a car accidemt.

Enjoy.

 

What trouble? Good solutions are found when options are proposed, what-if scenarios are analyzed and new alternatives created and the process started over and over again until a very good solution is found, or until one of the debaters starts slinging personal insults. Stay out of you have a weak spin or just sit on the sidelines and watch if you are the type who slows down to gawk at a car accidemt.

Enjoy.

I think you play naive. For one thing, there is no clear definition of "insults." In America today, mentioning facts has become to some intolerable insult.

Bottom line, it is political. No purpose will be served. And it is highly likely that the discussion will be acceptable so long as it stays well left of center, but woe be it to anyone who expresses an alternative view.

John

 

Some members said that this is politics, but there is a member said that is not, we decided to reopen it, but still "No politics" please, otherwise it could be closed anytime.

Someone asked to reopen it then please be careful don't going to the fire, thank you.

 

Okay? no direct politic intended here. Just thought some people would like to share their views on the whole wage and who deserves what and why thing along with the likely very short sighted concept of doing a massive rate rase in a short period of time.

The other thread has less of prompt for me to post this than did a trip to a local auto parts store the other day.

While I was there one of the guys working the counter took a call and apparently it was from someone who had English as a very basic second language.
When he was done with the call he commented something to the effect of 'why do all these foreigners come here and not learn the language?"
To which I commented ," Okay? Canadians getting to you today?"

He laughs and says, "No, other border. The "Cee" one not the "Aye" one. Why do they come here? All they do is take our jobs."

I then commented, "Which jobs? The minimum wage ones that the 'white person' won't take because they are too proud or lazy?"

His ending replay was , "Um.... Yep that would be the ones." as all the other employees who joined in for this conversation were having a good laugh, mostly at our own expense when the rationalization of why 'they' are here sank in.

 

Well... isn't the REAL minimum wage zero?

Somewhere, I saw in the news, a McDonald's restaurant is trying out an ordering kiosk with touch screen and credit card reader. No employee to take orders.

Is that a direct result of pay scale exceeding talent valuation?

 

Well... isn't the REAL minimum wage zero?

Somewhere, I saw in the news, a McDonald's restaurant is trying out an ordering kiosk with touch screen and credit card reader. No employee to take orders.

Is that a direct result of pay scale exceeding talent valuation?

Maybe, but now they need a staff of programmers and electrical engineers at each location.

 

I've seen that used in a number of places now. The places that have it fully automated and integrated so that I don't have to do anything but pick up my order when my number is called is great! I like it!

The places that have however tried to meet at a mid point of half machine order and half human service has much to be desired for and that problem tends to lie with the human half of the system that doesn't know how to interact with the computer half.

 

Maybe, but now they need a staff of programmers and electrical engineers at each location.

Only one if they actually know what they are doing and by far most of that type of work has been reduced down to plug and play.

If something quits working turn it off count to 20 and turn it back on. If that doesn't fix it pop the old one out and plug a new one in and if that doesn't work call central tech support and they will remote access it and fix it from there being the odds are why it quit working has to do with their latest service update they never properly tested before sending it out to onto the system network.

That was about 70% of my last ob working in the oilfield. Turn off, count, turn on, replace, call tech support and find out what update went in without my knowing it just before everything stopped functioning properly and have them undo it.

 

Only one if they actually know what they are doing and by far most of that type of work has been reduced down to plug and play.

If something quits working turn it off count to 20 and turn it back on. If that doesn't fix it pop the old one out and plug a new one in and if that doesn't work call central tech support and they will remote access it and fix it from there being the odds are why it quit working has to do with their latest service update they never properly tested before sending it out to onto the system network.

That was about 70% of my last ob working in the oilfield. Turn off, count, turn on, replace, call tech support and find out what update went in without my knowing it just before everything stopped functioning properly and have them undo it.

People would much rather deal with a machine/(cyber waiter) than another person. Real People only disappoint or annoy, look messy or dirty or smell badly, have poor grammar, misspeak or mumble, or they say 'what' all the time, or they got the order wrong. I think the machine interface reduces the disappointment or makes the experience more consistent for the customer.

Like all decisions and innovations, the machine was likely implemented for multiple reasons. Including quality, cleanliness, reliability, but cost may be more of a long-term assumption than an immediate return.

 

Well... isn't the REAL minimum wage zero?

Somewhere, I saw in the news, a McDonald's restaurant is trying out an ordering kiosk with touch screen and credit card reader. No employee to take orders.

Is that a direct result of pay scale exceeding talent valuation?

I first saw this at an Arby's more than a decade ago. The only thing similar I've seen since was an Applebee's that had a touchscreen ordering and payment system at every table.

I'm sure part of the movement in automated order and payment (and at some point delivery) systems is to reduce cost, but a big part is also to reduce the rampant error rate, particularly in the fast-food industry. Of course, the current rampant error rate is largely a consequence of the previous steps taken to reduce the less-than-currently-rampant error rates that resulted from the previous steps taken prior to that to, you guessed it, reduce the error rate.

 

Such discussions of kiosks and alternative technologies have nothing to do with laws regarding minimum wages. Minimum wage laws are a violation of the US Constitution and of international laws governing human rights.

There should be no minimum wage.

John

 

In my experience simultaneous discussion of politics and money are as simultaneous contact with two phases of a 345kV 'shipping' line -- only worse - in that, in the former scenario, one is spared cognizance of the consequences!

With tremulous regards
HP

 

People would much rather deal with a machine/(cyber waiter) than another person. Real People only disappoint or annoy, look messy or dirty or smell badly, have poor grammar, misspeak or mumble, or they say 'what' all the time, or they got the order wrong. I think the machine interface reduces the disappointment or makes the experience more consistent for the customer.

Re: supermarkets, etc...
I must confess to appreciation of 'self checkout' - and for many of the reasons stated above!

Best regards
HP

 

The minimum wage would have prevented me from getting my first job, if it had applied to my employer. I scooped ice cream at a Baskin Robbins. My first wage was 55¢/hour. Minimum wage at the time was $2.10. I forget the exact rule that exempted ice cream scoopers, but I know I would have never been hired if my wage had to be so much higher.

Some useful reading on the topic.

Milton Friedman responds to President Obama's proposal to raise the minimum wage, the most 'anti-black law in the land' - AEI

Minimum Wage's Discriminatory Effects

More recent research: The Minimum Wage and the Great Recession: Evidence of Effects on the Employment and Income Trajectories of Low-Skilled Workers

 

Such discussions of kiosks and alternative technologies have nothing to do with laws regarding minimum wages. Minimum wage laws are a violation of the US Constitution and of international laws governing human rights.

There should be no minimum wage.

John

Interesting. 90% of countries are violating international laws? Please explain rather than make broad claims.

 

It is a basic human right to work for what you are worth. The American Constitution and Declaration of Independence embody that concept. Read them.

Please support your so-called 90% "data?"

John

 

It is a basic human right to work for what you are worth. The American Constitution and Declaration of Independence embody that concept. Read them.

Please support your so-called 90% "data?"

John

I thought you knew how to use google... First line of Wikipedia - below this line is a list of minimum wages by many of the countries.

 

It is a basic human right to work for what you are worth. The American Constitution and Declaration of Independence embody that concept. Read them.

And, your opinion is crap according to the Supreme Court.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Hotel_Co._v._Parrish