So. That new minimum wage thing. Might as well start disgusing it here.

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
Please give the basis of that, not just a reference number.

1) There are 196 countries in the world, counting Taiwan (195 without)

2) There are 50 Muslim countries in the world. Muslim ideology allows slavery.

3) At least 10 countries overtly allow slaves.

4) 5 Developed countries have no minimum wages.

5) A minimum wage of just $5/hour exceeds the average age in many, many countries. Regardless of those statistics, where in the Constitution do you find it is the Federal government's prerogative to prevent me from working for what I consider a fair wage? John Thread Starter tcmtech Joined Nov 4, 2013 2,867 From my perspective the whole minimum wage this is hard to pin down. My first real job outside of work for my Dad was back in the early 1990's at a local gas station and convenience store. Minimum wage at the time was$4.25 an hour.

I loved it! Compared to him that minimum wage was about 5x what he paid plus I got an honest 40 hour pay for working 40 hours not a work 60+ and get paid fo <40 because he felt I didn't work as hard as he could.

Now that said given Todays work environment I can see the employers dislike for being forced to pay more than what a person is worth being way too many people I see and have worked with are outrightly not worth minimum wage. Heck, back then if I was as bad at my job and cared as little as they show themselves too I would have been fired on the spot.

But then again I look at what sort of people make it into management positions now a days I can sort of see why these people are useless and don't know any better. Their at work superiors and management are as ill-trained and educated in being useful as they are or worse.

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,012
Please give the basis of that, not just a reference number.

1) There are 196 countries in the world, counting Taiwan (195 without)

2) There are 50 Muslim countries in the world. Muslim ideology allows slavery.

3) At least 10 countries overtly allow slaves.

4) 5 Developed countries have no minimum wages.

5) A minimum wage of just $5/hour exceeds the average age in many, many countries. Regardless of those statistics, where in the Constitution do you find it is the Federal government's prerogative to prevent me from working for what I consider a fair wage? John I don't think anyone would stop you from volunteering to give up part of your wages. You should have announced you were taking the absurd strategy. Many people help friends and family launch businesses by volunteering their time and know how. If they are not asking to be paid minimum wage,there is no law protecting you from yourself in regards to minimum wage. Thread Starter tcmtech Joined Nov 4, 2013 2,867 Please give the basis of that, not just a reference number. From Google: 1) There are 196 countries in the world, counting Taiwan (195 without) 2) There are 50 Muslim countries in the world. Muslim ideology allows slavery. 3) At least 10 countries overtly allow slaves. 4) 5 Developed countries have no minimum wages. 5) A minimum wage of just$5/hour exceeds the average age in many, many countries.

Regardless of those statistics, where in the Constitution do you find it is the Federal government's prerogative to prevent me from working for what I consider a fair wage?

John

You are aware we are talking about US minimum wage and related things here right?

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,088
I don't think anyone would stop you from volunteering to give up part of your wages. You should have announced you were taking the absurd strategy. Many people help friends and family launch businesses by volunteering their time and know how. If they are not asking to be paid minimum wage,there is no law protecting you from yourself in regards to minimum wage.
If you pay Federal income taxes, you are surely aware of the requirement to report barter transactions. Do you?

John

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
If you pay Federal income taxes, you are surely aware of the requirement to report barter transactions. Do you?

John
I deny all knowledge and implementation of that requirement.

profbuxton

Joined Feb 21, 2014
419
And whats wrong with a minimum wage? Surely workers are entitled to be paid a wage that allows them to live reasonably, not as a slave on employers whim.
I see a lot of CEOs and other such being paid stupidly high wages and bonuses for doing next to nothing except wearing a tie and signing some documents occasionally. And very few of them take responsibility when the company fails, they bail out with the golden parachute.
The real work of running a company is done by his minions and advisers(also on huge salaries) whereas the people who do the actual productive work as treated like Sh1t.
And the same applies to governments.

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,012
If you pay Federal income taxes, you are surely aware of the requirement to report barter transactions. Do you?

John
What line item on the 1040 form do I use to report my underpaid earnings? Do I use the same line when I work late at my regular job - since I don't get paid for overtime?

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
I have always found that argument that paying a handful of people a the top of a company 10 - 50%+ of the companies profits (if there even were any) to do their jobs while hundreds to even thousands of lower paid workers make less than a fraction of a percent of their pay is ridiculous.

Especially so when you see the same company churn out crap products because they feel that saving a penny or two on every item they manufacture would save the company millions whereas knocking the top 10 paychecks down to 10% of what they get would save the company magnitudes of order (10's of cents to dollars per manufactured item) more than that plus allow them to manufacture a superior product at the same time.

It bewilders me how companies can have a 'spare no expense mentality on largely irrelevant things (A million plus spent to send less than 20 people to a conference they get nothing out of) yet squeal like stuck pigs if they have to spend a penny on actually improving their product or employees pay rates.

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
Please give the basis of that, not just a reference number.

1) There are 196 countries in the world, counting Taiwan (195 without)

2) There are 50 Muslim countries in the world. Muslim ideology allows slavery.

3) At least 10 countries overtly allow slaves.

4) 5 Developed countries have no minimum wages.

5) A minimum wage of just $5/hour exceeds the average age in many, many countries. Regardless of those statistics, where in the Constitution do you find it is the Federal government's prerogative to prevent me from working for what I consider a fair wage? John I think someone owns a business and doesn't like the concept of his employees, who make him his money while he rides on their backs, cutting into his fat paycheck. GopherT Joined Nov 23, 2012 8,012 Please give the basis of that, not just a reference number. From Google: 1) There are 196 countries in the world, counting Taiwan (195 without) 2) There are 50 Muslim countries in the world. Muslim ideology allows slavery. 3) At least 10 countries overtly allow slaves. 4) 5 Developed countries have no minimum wages. 5) A minimum wage of just$5/hour exceeds the average age in many, many countries.

Regardless of those statistics, where in the Constitution do you find it is the Federal government's prerogative to prevent me from working for what I consider a fair wage?

John
Apparently, you will be surprised to learn that most of those "Muslim countries" have minimum wage laws. Other than count the number of countries in the world like a fifth grader looking at the globe, you have yet to spew anything more than opinions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
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wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
16,752
And whats wrong with a minimum wage? Surely workers are entitled to be paid a wage that allows them to live reasonably....
No, no, a thousand times NO. No free person is entitled to a wage or a lifestyle. You get paid based on the supply and demand market for your labor, for your skills, for your productivity.

What everyone is entitled to is the pursuit of happiness - a fair shot at getting whatever job you can given your situation in life. The minimum wage ensures that, if you're an untested and inexperienced worker, you will not get a job. Thank you racist legacy.

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ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770

Where has all the money gone?
It's kind of clear why people are hurting.

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
16,752
I'm not terribly surprised by the general shape of those curves, but the steep cliff after 2000 surprises me. Is that fallout from everyone updating there automation prior to Y2K? Why so steep? NAFTA passed in 1994, if you were thinking of that particular sucking sound.

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
I'm not terribly surprised by the general shape of those curves, but the steep cliff after 2000 surprises me. Is that fallout from everyone updating there automation prior to Y2K? Why so steep? NAFTA passed in 1994, if you were thinking of that particular sucking sound.
The world ran out of private islands for the ultra-rich to buy so they had to step things up, in their favor of course, so that they can afford to buy their own continents in a few years.

Either that or that's when the mass outsourcing of labor to China and the like kicked in.

Kick minimum wage up to ~$15 an hour and that line will start to point straight down in a year or two more. djsfantasi Joined Apr 11, 2010 7,386 Maybe, but now they need a staff of programmers and electrical engineers at each location. What are you talking about? No programmers nor engineers are hired to take care of these kiosks. Hundreds or thousands of them can be monitored, installed, backed up, fixed and updated by a couple of guys in Boston using RMM (remote management and monitoring) software. I know. That's what we do. ronv Joined Nov 12, 2008 3,770 Another$.02
$15 in NYC is way different than$15 in Laredo. I think it should be a more local law.
I'm not terribly surprised by the general shape of those curves, but the steep cliff after 2000 surprises me. Is that fallout from everyone updating there automation prior to Y2K? Why so steep? NAFTA passed in 1994, if you were thinking of that particular sucking sound.
No, manufacturing in the US has gone up. Those are domestic figures.
Here is the whole article.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/10/15/the-myth-of-u-s-manufacturing-decline/

Not to say offshoring isn't happening, but those people buy our stuff as well.