Sinusoidal power supply 36 V 400 hz

Thread Starter

Wosiek

Joined Feb 5, 2021
9
Good morning

I have an electrical appliance that works with the voltage 36 V 400 Hz and I am looking for a diagram of a power supply. In a forum they recommended me to make a little circuit with a Wiena bridge, an operational amplifier and a double amplifier. And I do not know much about electronics but according to what I have been told, the power supply could be made with an ICL8038 generator and two TDA2050 amplifier boards. That's why I would like you to advise me how I can do it

Thanks and regards

Wosiek Spain
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
16,118
36V(AC) @ 400 Hz. is an aircraft appliance designed to run from a generator. A DC-DC converter will be about as much use to you as a rubber crutch.
 

KeithWalker

Joined Jul 10, 2017
1,780
Good morning

I have an electrical appliance that works with the voltage 36 V 400 Hz and I am looking for a diagram of a power supply. In a forum they recommended me to make a little circuit with a Wiena bridge, an operational amplifier and a double amplifier. And I do not know much about electronics but according to what I have been told, the power supply could be made with an ICL8038 generator and two TDA2050 amplifier boards. That's why I would like you to advise me how I can do it

Thanks and regards

Wosiek Spain
If your appliance is purely resistive like a kettle or toaster, it will run off DC. If it has active circuitry in it, you will need the 400Hz supply.
The ICL8038 will give you a very good 400Hz signal. 36Vrms is 100Vp/p. The TDA 2050 is only rated at +/- 25V so you will need two of them running 180- deg. out of phase with each other connected as a bridge supply to get the 100Vp/p. In the circuit below, connect your appliance in place of the speaker.
Connect the 400Hz sinewave from the function generator chip through a preset potentiomete to the input of the amp. With a resistive load connected to the amp, adjust the output to maximum unclipped voltage.
Bridgeamp.jpg
 
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Thread Starter

Wosiek

Joined Feb 5, 2021
9
cześć

Dziękuję za odpowiedź wszystkim, zwłaszcza KeithWalkes, bo o to mi chodzi.
Załączam zdjęcia konwertera i wskaźnika wraz z literą. To jest układ z samolotu. Jak widać na zdjęciu, falownik zasilany jest napięciem 27 V 2,5 A a na wyjściu jest trójfazowy 36 V 0,64 A 400 Hz.
Z tego, co doradzili mi na innym forum, wynika, że należy zastosować dwa wzmacniacze w połączeniu mostkowym i na każde wejście podać sygnał w przeciwnej fazie tak, aby sumowały się na wyjściu. Zamówiłem już wzmacniacze, ale generatora jeszcze nie ma, bo nie wiem dokładnie, jak to zrobić.
Chciałbym napisać do Papabravo, że to, co napisał, nie pomaga mi, więc przeczytaj uważnie mój pierwszy list i odpowiedz konkretnie.
 

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KeithWalker

Joined Jul 10, 2017
1,780
Translation:
Thanks to everyone for the answer, especially KeithWalkes because that's what I mean. I attach photos of the converter and indicator along with the letter. This is an airplane layout. As you can see in the picture, the inverter is powered by 27 V 2.5 A and the output is 36 V 0.64 A 400 Hz three-phase. From what they advised me on another forum, it follows that two amplifiers should be used in a bridge connection and each input should be given a signal in the opposite phase so that they add up at the output. I have already ordered amplifiers, but the generator is not there yet because I do not know exactly how to do it. I would like to write to Papabravo that what he wrote is not helping me, so read my first letter carefully and answer specifically.
 

LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
3,173
Looking at the picture of the original inverter I think the output is probably 3 phase.
The label says 3 fazy 400 Hz which I think may translate to 3 phase. If this is the case then the icl8038 will not be a suitable signal source. A design for a three phase oscillator will be required.
EDIT I have just seen Keith's translation which confirms that three phase is required.

Les.
 

Thread Starter

Wosiek

Joined Feb 5, 2021
9
cześć wszystkim
Najpierw pozwól mi odpowiedzieć na pytanie LesJonesa.
Jak pisałem wcześniej, przetwornik pochodzi ze starego rosyjskiego samolotu Antonov 2. Mam dwa i po podłączeniu zasilania 27 V DC było bardzo gorące. I nie wiedziałem dlaczego. I jak się okazało dzisiaj dowiedziałem się, że falownik musi być obciążony. Wczoraj podłączyłem żarówki 48 V 3 W ale dalej się nagrzewały. A dzisiaj, gdy mierzyłem rezystancję cewek wskaźnika, 42 - 43 omy podłączyłem rezystor 50 omów 20w. I okazało się, że to strzał na 10. Falownik musi być obciążony. Najpierw podłączyłem rezystory 51 ohm 20 w i tak się nie nagrzewało. Później podłączyłem 100 omów i tym bardziej się ociepliło. Więc teraz poszukam rezystorów 43 ohm 100 w i podłączę je na stałe. Po podłączeniu wskaźnika również się nagrzewał. Wskaźnik pochodzi z radia kompasu i nie jest sztucznym horyzontem. Być pewnym,
 

Thread Starter

Wosiek

Joined Feb 5, 2021
9
Falownik nagrzewa się mniej niż bez obciążenia, ale nagrzewa się. Zrobię więc obwód ze wzmacniaczami audio. Nie potrzebuję napięcia 3-fazowego tylko jedne 36 v 400 Hz
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
16,118
Translation:
Thanks to everyone for the answer, especially KeithWalkes because that's what I mean. I attach photos of the converter and indicator along with the letter. This is an airplane layout. As you can see in the picture, the inverter is powered by 27 V 2.5 A and the output is 36 V 0.64 A 400 Hz three-phase. From what they advised me on another forum, it follows that two amplifiers should be used in a bridge connection and each input should be given a signal in the opposite phase so that they add up at the output. I have already ordered amplifiers, but the generator is not there yet because I do not know exactly how to do it. I would like to write to Papabravo that what he wrote is not helping me, so read my first letter carefully and answer specifically.
I did read the TS's original post too fast and I made a mistake which I owned. As is often the case, words are a very poor means of communications for systems and circuits. Now he prefers to write in his native language, not English, which is less than helpful. As I see it he has no ground to stand on for the throwing of stones.
 

Thread Starter

Wosiek

Joined Feb 5, 2021
9
Welcome back

Papabravo

There is no problem, and I would not like you to misinterpret my words. If my post in the topic is not appropriate, I am sorry.

I am very grateful that you became interested in my problem and you wanted to help me.

Once again I greet all those who are trying to help me

PS
I do not know English . Everything that I post here is explained by google. It may happen that something is translated incorrectly and it may be in Polish. Therefore, please understand the mistakes I may make
 

KeithWalker

Joined Jul 10, 2017
1,780
In your original posting you state that you have an electrical appliance that works with the voltage 36 V 400 Hz and I you looking for a diagram of a power supply. I assumed that you need a power supply to run the appliance.
In post #6 you show a picture of a 3 phase 400 Hz inverter and an instrument.
I am confused. What is the appliance that you want to power? Does it need a 3 Phase supply or does it run from a single phase?
 

Thread Starter

Wosiek

Joined Feb 5, 2021
9
In the photo there is a converter and an indicator. The converter is supplied with a voltage of 27 V and gives a three-phase voltage of 36 V 400 Hz at the output. The indicator requires a single power source. The indicator in the middle has a triangle connected winding. A transmitter, called selsyn, is connected to this indicator. The transmitter, apart from the star winding, has one more, which excites a voltage of 36 V 400 Hz.
The problem is the inverter itself, it doesn't heat up. This inverter is designed to power an artificial horizon in an airplane. I use it to power the radiocompass pointer. And here's the problem. As he writes, the transmitter uses a single voltage to power the excitation winding and not like in the artificial horizon where it uses 3 phases. I have already come that the inverter does not heat up so much, it must have 3 phases loaded. So I connected 3 star-connected 50 ohm resistors to each phase. it heats up less, but it is probably not suitable for work because it will heat up too much. That's why I'm looking for a 36V 400Hz monophase source
 

Thread Starter

Wosiek

Joined Feb 5, 2021
9
wirnik = excitation winding / power supply 36 V 400 Hz

selsyn nadawczy = position encoder

selsyn transformatorowy = position indicator
 

KeithWalker

Joined Jul 10, 2017
1,780
That clarifies your requirement. Am I correct in assuming that the 400Hz single phase supply does not need to be synchronized with the 3 phase supply as it just provides a power source for the selsyn?
The data sheet for the ICL8038 shows how to connect it with a few components to make a high impedance (1Kohm) sinewave source.
 
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LesJones

Joined Jan 8, 2017
3,173
A couple of points.
The single phase supplies at both ends of the link must be in phase. (So you can't have an inverter at each end of the link.)
To save using a bridged amplifier to get the 36 volts RMS you could use a transformer to step up a lower voltage. A transformer designed for 50 hz would probably work well enough at 400 hz. When I was Googling for a three phase oscillator design yesterday using a 6.3 volt to 240 volt was mentioned. So if a transformer with about a 36 volt secondary (18 - 0 - 18) was used that is a ratio of 1:6.7 so to get 36 volts from the 240 volt winding would require 36/6.7 = 5.4 volts RMS which is about 15.3 volts peak to peak. It would probably be better to find a transformer with two low voltage secondaries of a suitable ratio and ignore (Or remove) the 240 volt winding. It think this would work as I remember when I was about 10 years old building a single ended valve amplifier using a 6.3 volt filament transformer as an output transformer and the output quality sounded reasonable. (There were lots of war surplus transformers available at that time.)

Les.
 
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