However, the seller said it's impossible for the water to be too conductive, and has known many people using dirty water from an Indian river, unboiled, non-distilled, and still made CS just fine. It's the first time he's heard something like this, and he's been working with CS for over 35 years.

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I would throw-out your device and
not have any further communications with the idiot that sold it to You.
Then build your own using the Schematic I provided.
Make sure the LED that You select can operate at ~30mA continuously.
If You don't want to use 9V-Batteries, get a used LapTop-Power-Supply instead.
These can be obtained from most "Thrift-Stores" or
a local Computer-Repair-Shop for just a few Dollars, or maybe even for free.

Never use anything other than Distilled-Water, it's available at any Grocery-Store.

It should take roughly ~30 to ~45 minutes to make a fairly strong ~16oz. batch using 4" Silver-Wires.
This is with the Current Limited to below ~25mA.
Keeping the Current low is critical for a quality final product.
Store in a Brown-Glass-Bottle, inside a dark Cabinet.
Light will cause the Silver to break-down over time.
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I would throw-out your device and
not have any further communications with the idiot that sold it to You.
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Thank you for the suggestion. I have saved your schematics and will look into it later as right now I don't have enough time.

I'm curious however, do you know any online stores that sell silver wire? I couldn't find any other good source so far (other than from the same man I bought the CS generator from)

But I'm curious where you get yours from, perhaps they're cheaper.

 

Then there was this guy who took too much...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Karason

 

Thank you for the suggestion. I have saved your schematics and will look into it later as right now I don't have enough time.

I'm curious however, do you know any online stores that sell silver wire? I couldn't find any other good source so far (other than from the same man I bought the CS generator from)

But I'm curious where you get yours from, perhaps they're cheaper.

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AtlasNova
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AtlasNova
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Thank you. I also did another search and managed to find silver wires which seem cheaper, so I figured I'd share back with you.

I found it on wires.co.uk
Price for 100 grams would be $177 on wires.co.uk while on AtlasNova about $250.

Maybe the difference is not that huge, but I figured I'd share one more supplier to know about in case one is out of stock.

 

However, the seller said it's impossible for the water to be too conductive

This is nonsense.It appears there is a current limiting resistor in the box, but it is a passive device and would not work of the conductivity of the water was outside its design range. It could also be that the external power supply is out of spec and can’t produce the current it is expected to produce.

I understand you to be saying the indicator light goes off when you complete the circuit. Does it relight when you disconnect?

This is what is almost certainly true with the information available:

The water you are using is more conductive than the device can handle—it can’t supply enough current to satisfy the requirements of physics as spelled out in Ohm’s Law which states that current is directly proportional to voltage and inversely proportional to resistance.

This is unavoidable. The current will increase as the resistance of the water goes down (which is like saying the conductivity goes up). There is no chance that without active current limiting, or empirical adjustment, such a device could perform optimally—or possibly even usefully, I don’t know.

As for “the current doesn’t matter because it is small”, that’s meaningless. Current is inextricably linked to voltage and resistance. Whatever the voltage the current will be proportional to it. If voltage matters then current (and resistance) do too!

If you want to generate colloidal silver to some specification to make it ”effective” according to your (or someone who has expertise in this area’s) requirements—take a loss on this thing and get something that will really do the job from someone that understands it and is not only selling it but making it as well.

 

It appears there is a current limiting resistor in the box, but it is a passive device and would not work of the conductivity of the water was outside its design range.

Thank you for your response.

It appears there is a current limiting resistor in the box - To my knowledge there should be one. Some sources say the current should not exceed 25 miliamps in order to produce colloidal silver. I'm not sure what the limit is on this one.

but it is a passive device and would not work of the conductivity of the water was outside its design range. - I don't know what this means, I appreciate if you would please inform me what makes it passive, and what would it take to make it active.

It could also be that the external power supply is out of spec and can’t produce the current it is expected to produce. - (Not sure about current, but the device is supposed to produce 55-60 VDC, and the local repair man I gave it to said the exiting voltage was 46.5 VDC. Although lower than the rated voltage, it should still be usable in making colloidal silver, as I understand at least 30 VDC are needed. (I'll ask about the current as well)

I understand you to be saying the indicator light goes off when you complete the circuit. Does it relight when you disconnect? - Yes, every time I connect both alligator clips the light turns off, and when I disconnect one alligator clip the light turns back on.

The water you are using is more conductive than the device can handle— I'm waiting for the results with distilled water, I hope that will work. (the device is still at the local repair man)

 

but it is a passive device and would not work of the conductivity of the water was outside its design range. - I don't know what this means, I appreciate if you would please inform me what makes it passive, and what would it take to make it active.

It is passive in that, unlike a circuit which uses uses feedback and device like a transistor, the resistor is a fixed value that is selected according to the expected rather that actual values of applied voltage and total resistance. This means it only represents a fixed ratio, with no way to adapt to varying conditions.

The conductivity of the medium (water) is one of those variables. If the design was targeting DI (deionized) water and had a carefully calibrated power supply, this would work just fine since (filtered) DI water has very small range of conductivity—which is because of a lack of ions which increase conductivity.

If distilled water is specified, it will result is a larger but still manageable range using the resistor approach. The conductivity of distilled water is very low, but generally higher than (filtered) DI water, and with a bigger range.

For tap water, or well water, or any unprocessed source all bets are off. The TDS (total dissolved solids) and ionic content of such water has an enormous range. A simple resistor would result in a range of current values far too wide to be useful.

While resistance is measured in Ω (Ohms), conductivity is measured in S (Siemens). For the regime of water conductivity, µS is useful unit (microsiemens, not microseconds). It’s actually µS/cm because distance matters. For comparison and very roughly:

Purified DI Water: 0.05 to 0.1 µS/cm
Ordinary DI Water: 0.1 to 10 µS/cm
Municipal Water: 50 to 1500 µS/cm

As you can see, if the water source is not controlled or empirically measured, a fixed resistor is not going to work in many cases. It would be possible to include a current indicating device, such as a meter, and provide a trimmer (variable resistor) to permit the end user to compensate for variations. One problem with this approach is cost—it would be higher than a current limiting circuit that worked automatically. Another is the size of the trimmer in terms of current capacity which means it will have ot be physically large, and also adds to the cost concern.

I understand you to be saying the indicator light goes off when you complete the circuit. Does it relight when you disconnect? - Yes, every time I connect both alligator clips the light turns off, and when I disconnect one alligator clip the light turns back on

That would tend to suggest the capacity of the power supply is insufficient. This could be due to a fault, or to bad selection. The maker could have switched parts for cost savings or inability to source the original—and the replacement might seem to work fine for some range of water types, but for high conductivity—and well water will almost certainly be on the higher end—it could fail just as you are seeing.

 

Thank you for your response.

It appears there is a current limiting resistor in the box - To my knowledge there should be one. Some sources say the current should not exceed 25 miliamps in order to produce colloidal silver. I'm not sure what the limit is on this one.

but it is a passive device and would not work of the conductivity of the water was outside its design range. - I don't know what this means, I appreciate if you would please inform me what makes it passive, and what would it take to make it active.

It could also be that the external power supply is out of spec and can’t produce the current it is expected to produce. - (Not sure about current, but the device is supposed to produce 55-60 VDC, and the local repair man I gave it to said the exiting voltage was 46.5 VDC. Although lower than the rated voltage, it should still be usable in making colloidal silver, as I understand at least 30 VDC are needed. (I'll ask about the current as well)

I understand you to be saying the indicator light goes off when you complete the circuit. Does it relight when you disconnect? - Yes, every time I connect both alligator clips the light turns off, and when I disconnect one alligator clip the light turns back on.

The water you are using is more conductive than the device can handle— I'm waiting for the results with distilled water, I hope that will work. (the device is still at the local repair man)

That device in the blue box does not appear to contain any components that would isolate the output from whatever mains voltage is supplied. So at best it is a serious shock hazard. At worst it would be a source of fatal electrocution for the unwary.
I have no comments about the claims for ingesting silver, but s serious warning about deadly products sold to the public.

 

This thing is running on a 50 V wall wart. Isolated, but above SELV limits. At this point we don't know if that is AC or DC.

Also, the fuse is 1/2 A. I'm not an expert in this field, but that seems waaay too high. 25 W of short circuit power? Are you chrome plating a hubcap?

TS - please post images of the power supply. It should have a label on it or information molded into the plastic case listing the input and output voltages, currents, power levels, whatever. Hopefully, it also has safety certification logos.

ak

 

Update for everyone:

Many of you were right from the start, the water was too conductive.

The local repair man had it tested with distilled water and it worked.

I'll pick up the device later and conduct my own tests, too.

Sadly, when I asked the seller if the water can be too conductive, he said: "Not in the slightest. That's absurd." So much for believing he knows his stuff.

Thank you to everyone who took time to respond, I will try to post photos to answer AnalogKid's question when I get the device.

I will also look into learning more, and building my own device as this one seems too overpriced for what it is, perhaps the same money could make a better, safer, more advanced device.

Will post any other updates later on.

 

If One thing is certain is that the circuit shown in post #7 is not one bit similar to what the thing is powered by a wall wart the power is limited and no fuse is not one bit similar to what we see in the photo in post #11. And that picture shows parts not totalling more than $10 (USD), aside from the box itself. So clearly a RIP-OFF!
A supply for electrolysis does not need to be well filtered, but IT DOES NEED TO BE ISOLATED and it should be stable, not affected much by the load current.
Hopefully others will know what sort of voltage and current capability a supply for the process should have. I can't help with that part, but when those numbers are known the rest is elementary.

 

The Voltage, ( when the Current is actively Regulated ),
only affects the amount of time required.

A single 1.5V Alkaline-Cell will work, if you're willing to wait for about a week.

The procedure starts-out with a very high Impedance,
( assuming Distilled-Water, and 4" long Silver-Wires ),
the higher starting Voltage tends to "get the ball rolling" much quicker.
As Colloidal-Silver-particles start to be released into the Water,
the Conductivity of the Water starts to increase,
this causes an exponential increase in Current until the
Current-Regulator starts cutting-back on the Voltage available across the 2 Silver-Wires.

If the Current is allowed to get higher than approximately ~25mA,
( the Voltage is completely irrelevant ),
the Silver-particles being put into the Water go from being considered "Colloidal" in size
to being huge "clusters" of large-Silver-particles, turning the Water "cloudy" and opaque.
This is very wasteful, and large particles are no where near as effective as Colloidal-sized particles.
Only Colloidal-sized particles can be absorbed directly though the Skin,
larger-sized particles can NOT be absorbed through the Skin.

Once ~25mA of Current has been maintained for approx. ~10-minutes,
the batch should be considered "done".
Increasing the concentration of Silver past this point is simply wasteful,
and starts to cause the production of unwanted Hydrogen and Oxygen Gases, and Silver-Oxide.
The Silver-Oxide, ( AKA Silver-Tarnish ),
is basically harmless to humans,
but it's ugly, and makes a black-gooey mess that must be cleaned-up, and/or, filtered-out of the Water.
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I suggest serious caution because other metals can probably be absorbed also, some being rather toxic.

 

I suggest serious caution because other metals can probably be absorbed also, some being rather toxic.

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This is no more hazardous than the Poisonous Fluoride-Heavy-Metals that
are intentionally added to your Local-Municipal-Water-Supply.

Normally, the suppliers of Silver-Wires intended for the creation of Colloidal-Silver-Water
sell only certified 9999% pure Silver-Wires, as they are generally very health-conscience retailers.
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My concern would apply to the clips connecting to the silver wire. Their materials may not be so benign as the actual silver wire. Keep in mind that ALL the metal contacting the liquid is subject to electrolysis. THAT was the reaso for my caution. NOT the intentional, but the accidental.

 

That's an excellent point,
and a point that is discussed frequently on sites dealing with the making of Colloidal-Silver-Water.
This is nothing new or ground-breaking, it's been done at least since the '70's, so around ~50-years or so.
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