Think you wrong with this. The Koran doesn't teach this, it's the people in charge that do.

I am afraid that the Koran does sanction violence as a tool for "conversion":
“... whereas Allah supposedly told the prophet that ‘there is no compulsion in religion’ (2: 256), once the messenger grew strong enough, Allah issued new revelations calling for all-out war/ jihad till Islam became supreme (8: 39, 9: 5, 9: 29, etc.).”
Mainstream Islamic jurisprudence continues to hold that the sword verses (9: 5 and also 9: 29) have “abrogated, canceled, and replaced” those verses that call for “tolerance, compassion, and peace.”

 

These systems are designed to tell us what happened after the fact not to prevent events.

Do you mean my government has recently started lying?

But seriously, I am way behind on this. (To the people in general) Please try not to get this Thread locked while people who actually know some facts help educate the rest of us.

Meanwhile, I hope the abysmal failure of trying to bomb the beliefs out of the indigenous people of Afghanistan or Vietnam doesn't apply when they try to export their beliefs to the Western world. ISIS doesn't have the Home Field Advantage in Europe.

Edit: I'm really afraid to sprinkle, "likes" on this Thread because some people might think I agree with all of their post when I only mean to thank them for part of their contribution.

 

They hate us because their deity commands them to, not because of anything we've done to them or failed to do for them.

... that too ... and also, it's their scripture that is deeply flawed, and since the hadith, the text containing the words and deeds of Allah’s Prophet, credits Muhammad with saying that his generation would be the best of all, and the one that followed him the next best, and so on down.... it can only mean that they will always revert to the customs of those times (the 7th century), always trying to re-grasp the (impossible to surpass) "perfection" attained by their profet. And so they're doomed to an endless cycle of mindless brutality until their goal (islamic world domination) is reached.
Here's an interesting fact: the word islam means "submission" in its original language.

 

He regarded human reason as a cancer upon Islam.

Were neoplastic disorders recognized as a pathological entity (even to the extent of analogous reference) in Ca. 1100 CE!?

With genuine curiosity
HP

 

Were neoplastic disorders recognized as a pathological entity (even to the extent of analogous reference) in Ca. 1100 CE!?

With genuine curiosity
HP

I'm not specifically sure... but I believe that the existence of tumors in the human body is ancient knowledge

 

And so they're doomed to an endless cycle of mindless brutality until their goal (islamic world domination) is reached.

Or until their fervor causes them to commit an act so heinous that it results in their annihilation.

Here's an interesting fact: the word islam means "submission" in its original language.

Yup. It sure as heck doesn't mean "peace."

 

Or until their fervor causes them to commit an act so heinous that it results in their annihilation.

Historically, their own fervor has been their main source of suffering, actually.

 

Or until their fervor causes them to commit an act so heinous that it results in their annihilation.

Sadly, it seems the pattern that survival of barbarous zealots is guaranteed by the 'forgetfulness' (read: sloth and cowardice) of their adversaries...

 

and I hope this doesn't spiral into more violence

I hope it does.

And by this, I mean the kind of violence that impresses upon the perpetrators that their actions result in total obliteration of their way of life.

Wars end in only one of two ways: victory or surrender. It is a black and white issue, with no middle ground.

Sadly, Western civilization, up to this point, has chosen surrender.

Hopefully, when Islam has achieved its victory, the faithful will have mercy upon us dhimmis, and murder us as painlessly as possible.

 

Sadly, Western civilization, up to this point, has chosen surrender.

Absolutely!

 

I read a few reports/opinion papers that say ISIS wants the world powers to attack it in order to initiate the "End of Days"/Armageddon. So.....

IMO only 2 solutions

1.) Isolate the region completely;
2.) Nuke it into oblivion;

The refuge issue and radicalization of locals makes containment/isolation, a ship that has already sailed. The Paris style attacks will continue whether we build a 100 foot wall around Syria or not.

The second option of flying fully loaded B52s, wing tip to wing tip, across Syria, does have its appeal, but that's just me, old school. It still would not stop the Paris style attacks.

Whatever the third option is that works, I think it is going to require the majority of the worlds "sane" people to "grow a pair". Everything that ISIS has done is designed to cause fear or anger. Both emotions rob you of clear thinking.

We are all at war right now, but we have never seen a war like this before.

Ben Franklin, "Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

 

Whatever the third option is that works, I think it is going to require the majority of the worlds "sane" people to "grow a pair".

Agreed - howbeit I wouldn't 'hold my breath' considering the (popular) media-centric 'followership' that is the rapidly corrupting corpse of erstwhile "Western Culture"...

Ben Franklin, "Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

Ditto for similar acquiescence to the (so called) 'greater good'

Best regards
HP

 

I think it would be wise to stop discussing this in context of religion. Religion is a tool that has been used to control the masses by all cultures throughout the ages. The control lies in the basic need of the people to be controlled and the goals of the leaders. What do those drawn to ISIS seek? Should perhaps Germany of 1930s be revisited? How do you make one group of people hate another this much? Noone wakes up in the morning with a desire to kill - i do not believe that this is human nature. Call ma naive, but Palestinians and Israelies lived side by side for years - what happened? Who needed the change?

Ask questions. Think about how artificial all the borders are - none of them came about through natural conflict, they were imposed on the area through agreements in which they had no say.

I am a big fan of TE Lawrence. He is the only person I know who can claim to have some understanding of the people we are discussing.
He wrote:
"the fringes of their deserts were strewn with broken faiths"
Too bad no one learned from his experience (and I dont mean the movie)

 

And by this, I mean the kind of violence that impresses upon the perpetrators that their actions result in total obliteration of their way of life.

Oh, I'd have no qualms about using violence against these sort of beasts. I was hoping that this event does not spiral into more violence against innocent people, and by that, I mean all innocents, regardless of their religious beliefs.
And no... I do not believe that if they kill our innocent then we have the right to kill theirs. That goes against everything that the West has strove to so hard to gain.

Ben Franklin, "Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

Amen to that...

I think we are at a crossroads at this point. We either face the threat bluntly and directly, and start calling things by their real names, or we prepare for a decades-long (possibly even longer) campaign of political correctness led by a bunch of self-deluded, guileless politicians that will allow far worse atrocities to happen.

"ISIS is contained"... yeah, right...

 

On a lighter note:

Noone wakes up in the morning with a desire to kill

You oughta try my ISP!

TTFN
HP

 

Religion is a tool that has been used to control the masses by all cultures throughout the ages.

I'd say that ideas are the tool used to control the masses... think of the so-called Illustration that in France climaxed with the period of Terror, or Mao Tse Tung 's policy of progress, stalinism, nazism, communism... you name it. None of them had anything to do with religion. In fact, some of the worst atrocities in history have been committed against religion, and not for it.

 

I'd say that ideas are the tool used to control the masses... think of the so-called Illustration that in France climaxed with the period of Terror, or Mao Tse Tung 's policy of progress, stalinism, nazism, communism... you name it. None of them had anything to do with religion. In fact, some of the worst atrocities in history have been committed against religion, and not for it.

should we then change it "ideology" ? I think that makes it fairly all encompassing.

 

Religion is a tool that has been used to control the masses by all cultures throughout the ages....

Please do not use Marx to frame an argument. That is the point I stop listening, and I'm an atheist.

You are not going to eliminate religion...no matter how hard you try (and I don't believe such an attempt is wise). A majority of the world's population believes in a deity of one form(s) or another.

The goal should be to make life as painful as possible for those who use their beliefs to relieve others of their freedom or their lives -- regardless if those beliefs are religious or political.

 

The goal should be to make life as painful as possible for those who use their beliefs to relieve others of their freedom or their lives -- regardless if those beliefs are religious or political.

That's a good goal... but personally I see no end to it, unfortunately we rule ourselves with a set of values that can easily be used against us ... like our beloved freedom of speech, for instance. History has shown that once Evil takes hold of power, it quickly suppresses all of the tools that it itself used to gain it in the first place.

 

Think about how artificial all the borders are - none of them came about through natural conflict, they were imposed on the area through agreements in which they had no say.

I think you've hit the nail in the head with that observation.