Oil well ignition module

Irving

Joined Jan 30, 2016
5,132
You guys have any sources for obsolete parts? Is there any way to find out what a component may have been used in?

Have either of you heard of a mosfet labeled AO1510? I can’t find a. Umber like that anywhere
Thats because its AOI 510, and was manufactured by Alpha & Omega Industries up to 2011, now obsolete as it used an old contruction technique. There are many suitable alternatives for this 30v, 40A device.
 

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MarkySparky42

Joined Aug 28, 2022
204
Thats because its AOI 510, and was manufactured by Alpha & Omega Industries up to 2011, now obsolete as it used an old contruction technique. There are many suitable alternatives for this 30v, 40A device.
Can you Recommend one?

When I get home I will upload a picture of the schematic
 

Thread Starter

MarkySparky42

Joined Aug 28, 2022
204
There is a Diode in the upper right corner of the schematic... RGP02-12E-E3/73GICT-ND
I cant find that anywhere. however Mouser has a 54GICT-ND version available. Do you think it would be comparable? or is 73 vs 54 majorly important?
 

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MarkySparky42

Joined Aug 28, 2022
204
An alternative transformer would appear to be a CoilCraft FL2015-5L_

You may be able to get a free sample from Coilcraft here

In-stock alternatives to the AOI510 are:
CSD18535KCS (Mouser)
TK3R1A04PLS4X (Mouser)
PI029N06NAKSA1 (Mouser)
CSD18511KCS (Digikey)
CSD18510KCS (Digikey)
IRL40B215 (Digikey)
It's moments like this that frustrate me. I don't know how to distinguish between this 6 alternatives or how even to pick them. What is the most important characteristic to look at when choosing...
 

Irving

Joined Jan 30, 2016
5,132
There is a Diode in the upper right corner of the schematic... RGP02-12E-E3/73GICT-ND
I cant find that anywhere. however Mouser has a 54GICT-ND version available. Do you think it would be comparable? or is 73 vs 54 majorly important?
This is why you must learn to read the datasheet....

There you find the table:
1663155637460.png
Which shows the different bulk packaging options... of no importance if you're buying only a few, but critical if you're manufacturing and need them on a reel for pick & place machines.
 

Thread Starter

MarkySparky42

Joined Aug 28, 2022
204
An alternative transformer would appear to be a CoilCraft FL2015-5L_

You may be able to get a free sample from Coilcraft here

In-stock alternatives to the AOI510 are:
CSD18535KCS (Mouser)
TK3R1A04PLS4X (Mouser)
PI029N06NAKSA1 (Mouser)
CSD18511KCS (Digikey)
CSD18510KCS (Digikey)
IRL40B215 (Digikey)
I sent for a free sample from Coilcraft.

I want to model this circuit in the PCB software and get a PCB made - if the breadboard version works.
 

Thread Starter

MarkySparky42

Joined Aug 28, 2022
204
This is why you must learn to read the datasheet....

There you find the table:
View attachment 276212
Which shows the different bulk packaging options... of no importance if you're buying only a few, but critical if you're manufacturing and need them on a reel for pick & place machines.
I did a "COMPARE" and the 1000 vs 1 came up on Mouser's website. but all the other fields on the 73 were blank or dashes. None of the electrical beef was there to look at. I have heeded your warning from previous posts and have printed out all the Datasheets for a folder on this project... going back for all the other projects as well. It is where I learned about the 555 chips and all their prefix/suffix designations being mostly MFG indicators.

Can PSPICE model this circuit if some of the components are obsolete (specifically the transformer)?
 

Irving

Joined Jan 30, 2016
5,132
It's moments like this that frustrate me. I don't know how to distinguish between this 6 alternatives or how even to pick them. What is the most important characteristic to look at when choosing...
In this instance there's little or nothing to choose between them, because they've been selected to meet the key parameters, namely:
max drain-source voltage >=40v
max Rds(on) < 2.7mOhm
max gate charge <70nC


so price and stock levels.... are the only parameter that you need to consider...
 

Irving

Joined Jan 30, 2016
5,132
Can PSPICE model this circuit if some of the components are obsolete (specifically the transformer)?
As long as you have parameters you can model anything. Sometimes the manufacturer can provide the model, but sometimes you have to create it from info on the data sheet. Its fairly easy to model a transformer with coupled inductors.

Coilcraft have a page on doing this...
 

Thread Starter

MarkySparky42

Joined Aug 28, 2022
204
I shall purchase one today.
I shall purchase two - one to soak in MEK or some other solvent.

I'll make something that works but I want to continue this project until I master it.

View attachment 276095

The 4-pin DC CDI / HEI module requires a hall effect input to trigger it.

This 7 pin version looks like my magnet and trigger coil will work just fine.

Comments anyone?


View attachment 276097

View attachment 276098View attachment 276097View attachment 276098

The above circuit does work at 12VDC. It uses a 12VDC relay to hit the coil with power. It works but the relay and I assume the transistor gets hot - really hot and eventually fails. The contacts on the relay are rated for a few million toggles but it is a very simple solution.
 

Thread Starter

MarkySparky42

Joined Aug 28, 2022
204
Ok. I finally had some time to simulate the spinning magnet (Thanks to Alec).

39232F22-6AAE-411A-8467-8585E286A7EF.jpegF94DD7FD-A2FD-4955-933B-6C9C66EBEBDE.jpegI need to replace some of these fixed resistors with POTs so I can increase the voltage spike and widen or narrow the spike as needed!
 

Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
15,119
I need to replace some of these fixed resistors with POTs so I can increase the voltage spike and widen or narrow the spike as needed!
Reduce R1 to increase the pulse amplitude. Increase R3 to increase the interval between the negative-going and positive-going peaks of the pulse. Tinker with C3 and C4 to modify the pulse shape. Vary R4 to change the pulse repetition period.
 

Thread Starter

MarkySparky42

Joined Aug 28, 2022
204
Reduce R1 to increase the pulse amplitude. Increase R3 to increase the interval between the negative-going and positive-going peaks of the pulse. Tinker with C3 and C4 to modify the pulse shape. Vary R4 to change the pulse repetition period.
Somewhere in my junk pile I think I have a variable CAP, but I do not think I will need it. The waveform looks very similar to what the actual coil/magnet makes. I will add some variable pots so that I can increase frequency and amplitude - to simulate the stronger voltage as the RPM increases.
 

Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
15,119
The waveform looks very similar to what the actual coil/magnet makes.
That was the intention of the circuit. For your application I doubt tinkering with the waveform shape would make much difference. Any negative/positive peak pair, even squared off, should suffice.
 

Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
15,119
I've been playing with more simulations and now think there's a simple alternative to blanking the HV supply module you've got (if you were still thinking of going that route). You should be able to use the module unmodified and unblanked, as below. The pic shows two scenarios, the only difference being the addition of diode D3 in the second scenario.
CDIcomparison.jpg
The contents of the dotted rectangle are a crude simulation of your HV module, and the Trigger is a crude model of the triggering coil plus whatever conditioning the coil signal needs. The SCR type is arbitrary but assumes a sensitive-trigger type.
Version A results in a single current pulse through the ignition coil: Version B results in a few cycles of oscillation (dependent on, inter alia, the duration of the trigger pulse).
The magic is performed by the 10k resistor, which limits the current drawn from th HV supply but is sufficiently low in value to allow the CDIcap to recharge to 350V between successive firings of the SCR (here at 100mS intervals, corresponding to 600rpm of the engine). Note that the HV voltage (trace hv2) drops only a volt or so.
Average current draw from the HV module is ~8mA; peak is ~35mA.
 
Last edited:

Thread Starter

MarkySparky42

Joined Aug 28, 2022
204
I've been playing with more simulations and now think there's a simple alternative to blanking the HV supply module you've got (if you were still thinking of going that route). You should be able to use the module unmodified and unblanked, as below. The pic shows two scenarios, the only difference being the addition of diode D3 in the second scenario.
View attachment 276412
The contents of the dotted rectangle are a crude simulation of your HV module, and the Trigger is a crude model of the triggering coil plus whatever conditioning the coil signal needs. The SCR type is arbitrary but assumes a sensitive-trigger type.
Version A results in a single current pulse through the ignition coil: Version B results in a few cycles of oscillation (dependent on, inter alia, the duration of the trigger pulse).
The magic is performed by the 10k resistor, which limits the current drawn from th HV supply but is sufficiently low in value to allow the CDIcap to recharge to 350V between successive firings of the SCR (here at 100mS intervals, corresponding to 600rpm of the engine). Note that the HV voltage (trace hv2) drops only a volt or so.
Average current draw from the HV module is ~8mA; peak is ~35mA.
 
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