moving wheat field motorization

Thread Starter

Mary1998

Joined May 4, 2021
5
Hello Community:)
I am totally new here and lost when it comes to my newest project I wanted to do for University. I want to make a field with fibre glas sticks which is moving like it does in the wind. And I want that there are different movements/ wind streams within the field like you can see in the nature.
My friend told me I should do something with a magnetic field, but I don't think this really works.
I am beginner, but I have friends who could help me with more difficult parts. But my problem is that I don't even really know where to start right now. I would be really thankful for any hint that pushes me in the right direction so that I can go deeper into this and that I can start experimenting. I don't need a full solution, but I am would be so grateful for some ideas or approaches how to maybe get there in the best case ;)! Thank you so much!
 

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BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
3,652
How many of these fiberglass reeds are there? Is is practical to have an electromechanical device for each one? Is not, I think your only option us a bunch of hidden fans.

Bob
 

Yaakov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
3,464
Do you want to model the motion and then use the rods to display the results, or do you want to use the rods to simulate the motion by having a force act directly on them?
 

RBR1317

Joined Nov 13, 2010
662
So, take the grass picture and divide it into 10 partitions. Across each division there seems to be about 6 individual stalks of grass. So each individual square partition would need 36 simulated stalks of grass. A simulation of the picture provided would need at least 10x10 partitions or 3600 simulated stalks. However, if you want to simulate undulating waves in the wind out to the horizon then it might need considerably more than 3600. So, how many simulated stalks of grass are you planning to build?
 

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Thread Starter

Mary1998

Joined May 4, 2021
5
How many of these fiberglass reeds are there? Is is practical to have an electromechanical device for each one? Is not, I think your only option us a bunch of hidden fans.

Bob
Yes I totally agree that it probably would be easier to do with electrical fan, but I am curious how I could get this kind of movement with electrical device. I was hoping there might be a solution where I don't have to motorize every single reed. I probably want something which requires a lot of electromechanical equipment. But thanks a lot for replying! I was just curious if there might be possbility
 

Thread Starter

Mary1998

Joined May 4, 2021
5
Do you want to model the motion and then use the rods to display the results, or do you want to use the rods to simulate the motion by having a force act directly on them?
Yes I want to model the motion and then use the rods to display the result. I wanted a field which is mimicking the motion of wind. I was interested no to motorize every single fibre glas stick, because I thought to make a bigger field (lets say 2m x 2m). So I was curious if there is an affordable option to motorize many of them. A friend from uiversity told me about magnetic field, but I am not sure about that and first experiments failed.
Maybe this whole thing is to complicated for me now and the solution would be more difficult than I thought. In any case I thank you for your response and thoughts
 

Thread Starter

Mary1998

Joined May 4, 2021
5
So, take the grass picture and divide it into 10 partitions. Across each division there seems to be about 6 individual stalks of grass. So each individual square partition would need 36 simulated stalks of grass. A simulation of the picture provided would need at least 10x10 partitions or 3600 simulated stalks. However, if you want to simulate undulating waves in the wind out to the horizon then it might need considerably more than 3600. So, how many simulated stalks of grass are you planning to build?
You are right that this amount of simulated sticks are very challenging. I wanted to start with a much smaller amount of sticks and get bigger. I was thinking about a 2m x 2m field. The picture was more thought as an idea what kind of movement I am looking for. I didn't want to motorize every single stick. so I was wondering if there is maybe already a system to make those kind of movements. I was trying out with a magnetic field and today I starting to experiment with a kind of net beneath the sticks and move the net with motors. but After your replies I might need to admit that this idea is more complex than I thought. Thank you as well for your kind reply!
 

Yaakov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
3,464
Yes I want to model the motion and then use the rods to display the result. I wanted a field which is mimicking the motion of wind. I was interested no to motorize every single fibre glas stick, because I thought to make a bigger field (lets say 2m x 2m). So I was curious if there is an affordable option to motorize many of them. A friend from uiversity told me about magnetic field, but I am not sure about that and first experiments failed.
Maybe this whole thing is to complicated for me now and the solution would be more difficult than I thought. In any case I thank you for your response and thoughts
So, this is going to be very difficult. Consider the physics. The grass is mostly moved from the top by the wind. It is held rigid at the bottom. To accurately simulate the movement, somehow you have to apply a force to the top of the stick.

You could be actuators at the bottom, but the leverage of the mass in the top of the stick would make control very difficult. You can't put actuators at the top. Maybe you could use three cords attached to the sides of the stick in a symmetrical triangle and by pulling the cords (shortening them) proportionally, you could maneuver the top of the stick.

It seems no matter how you try, there are a lot of actuators to build. The simulation will have to "cooperate" with the sticks since their momentum and various physical characteristics will partially determine their response to the control signals.
 

BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
3,652
What I would do is model the whole thing in software with a real-time graphics display of the result. This would give me an idea of what level of simulation would be needed to get the desired visual effect.

For example, do the simulated stalks need to bend in a curve, or could the stay stiff and merely change their angle, which would be much easier.

And, do I need to control each stalk independently, or might I move a 10 x 10 matrix of them together? This would require only 2 actuators (X,Y) for 100 stalks, if it was acceptable.

Bob
 
Last edited:

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
8,474
Hello Community:)
I am totally new here and lost when it comes to my newest project I wanted to do for University. I want to make a field with fibre glas sticks which is moving like it does in the wind. And I want that there are different movements/ wind streams within the field like you can see in the nature.
My friend told me I should do something with a magnetic field, but I don't think this really works.
I am beginner, but I have friends who could help me with more difficult parts. But my problem is that I don't even really know where to start right now. I would be really thankful for any hint that pushes me in the right direction so that I can go deeper into this and that I can start experimenting. I don't need a full solution, but I am would be so grateful for some ideas or approaches how to maybe get there in the best case ;)! Thank you so much!
Hi,

Do you mean you want to simulate the movements or you want to measure the movements?

If you want to simulate the movements then you need to drive each component with some sort of actuator, but if you want to measure the movement (for study into this area) then you need one big fan or maybe a large bank of fans so you can allow them to move as freely as they would in nature and also sensors to measure the movement of each one of some kind of image capture and analysis.

As to the idea of simulation, getting a lot of things to move individually usually requires a lot of actuators unless the movements are always related in some way. For example if the entire field is small a magnetic fluid and magnetic field might look something like what you would see in nature, but that would not work if you had complex unrelated movements. If you have 1000 independent movements then you need 1000 independent actuators.
 

BobaMosfet

Joined Jul 1, 2009
1,848
Hello Community:)
I am totally new here and lost when it comes to my newest project I wanted to do for University. I want to make a field with fibre glas sticks which is moving like it does in the wind. And I want that there are different movements/ wind streams within the field like you can see in the nature.
My friend told me I should do something with a magnetic field, but I don't think this really works.
I am beginner, but I have friends who could help me with more difficult parts. But my problem is that I don't even really know where to start right now. I would be really thankful for any hint that pushes me in the right direction so that I can go deeper into this and that I can start experimenting. I don't need a full solution, but I am would be so grateful for some ideas or approaches how to maybe get there in the best case ;)! Thank you so much!
Title: Understanding Basic Electronics, 1st Ed.
Publisher: The American Radio Relay League
ISBN: 0-87259-398-3

Read it. Understand it. If that's too much of a bother, perhaps electronics isn't for you.... just saying. Electronics isn't for the faint-hearted.
 
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