Thank You to "Y" for that explanation about phone numbers. It has been a small puzzle to me as to how friends and clients with strange area codes can live nearby. I had never stopped to think about it.

It has been so difficult for me to watch the decline of the PSTN and the last mile infrastructure. The Bell System was a very American thing. It arose from a combination of circumstances and national attributes that were unique to America. The combination of AT&T, Western Electric, and Bell Labs showed (to me) ”Americanism” done right.

There were so many times when it was done wrong and Bell was like an antidote to that stuff. Bell was (IMO) the pinnacle but there we others to lean on as well—Lockheed Martin and the Skunk Works, EG&G, NASA, Xerox PARC, General Radio, HP—to name some inspiring organizations at random and in no particular order.

I must say I don’t find myself inspired by industry these days—surely that’s partly me but it’s also them. Occasionally, I am awed by some technical accomplishment and it is like a shadow of the days when it would inspire.

Oh well, that was quite a discursive leap. Very not a good direction for the thread. So…

 

@MisterBill2 I moved this to it’s own thread, it was a sort of answer to you from the other thread….

 

It has been so difficult for me to watch the decline of the PSTN and the last mile infrastructure. The Bell System was a very American thing. It arose from a combination of circumstances and national attributes that were unique to America. The combination of AT&T, Western Electric, and Bell Labs showed (to me) ”Americanism” done right.

There were so many times when it was done wrong and Bell was like an antidote to that stuff. Bell was (IMO) the pinnacle but there we others to lean on as well—Lockheed Martin and the Skunk Works, EG&G, NASA, Xerox PARC, General Radio, HP—to name some inspiring organizations at random and in no particular order.

I must say I don’t find myself inspired by industry these days—surely that’s partly me but it’s also them. Occasionally, I am awed by some technical accomplishment and it is like a shadow of the days when it would inspire.

Oh well, that was quite a discursive leap. Very not a good direction for the thread. So…

Not for that thread, but please—agree, disagree, or something else—make your own take on this known. It’s like as I approach the end of my life so do all the iconic things that shaped my youth. Sure, the companies may still be around long after I am gone but the spirit that created them is vanishing as the social norms change—sometimes for the better but often for the worse if for no other reason than ignorance of what came before.

 

Bell Telephone was a monopoly created by the government and in my opinion was one of the best companies to ever exist, of course the government giveth and the government taketh away.

My grandmother was a bell operator she had great pay and benefits including a nice "princess" phone.

I remember looking into Demarcs back in the day where all of the wires were routed using right angles, look into a Demarc today and prepare to get a headache.

Ehh...don't get me started.

 

Bell Telephone was a monopoly created by the government and in my opinion was one of the best companies to ever exist, of course the government giveth and the government taketh away.

My grandmother was a bell operator she had great pay and benefits including a nice "princess" phone.

I remember looking into Demarcs back in the day where all of the wires were routed using right angles, look into a Demarc today and prepare to get a headache.

Ehh...don't get me started.

I worked (operator, technician and supervisor) and lived at the TCF stations the military ran in connection with TPC. (The Phone Company's here and overseas) It was a marvel and nightmare of wire switches and interconnects (of circuit switching networks) all being replaced by digital packet switching in the 70's.
The people that worked there didn't miss the old technology leaving.

Nostalgia is usually from those watching, not those doing.

Example job:
https://careers.kbr.com/us/en/job/R2084019/Diego-Garcia-Technical-Control-Facility-TCF-Operator

 

I think you missed my point.

I had great respect for Ma Bell, I have very little respect for Verizon.

When I asked for help because my answering machine was not compatible with their VoIP...nope sorry.

When I asked for help interfacing my security system's phone fault detect with the new FiOS system...nope sorry.

I also had/have other issues with Verizon I won't get into here.

But I'm pretty sure Ma Bell would have bent over backwards and done backflips to solve any problems I had with their system, because that what tiggers do.

(that's the kind of company they were)

 

I think another perhaps worthy of mention was RCA.
They had numerous inventions in the electronics field, including color television, the electron microscope, CMOS based technology, heterojunction physics, optoelectronic emitting devices, Liquid Crystal Displays (LCDs), video cassette recorders, etc.
Of course they also had their dark side, such as trying to screw Farnsworth out of his electronic TV patents after they refused to pay him royalties.

 

They had numerous inventions in the electronics field, including color television

Color television was invented by different people using different techniques.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillermo_González_Camarena

I'm not thoroughly familiar with the subject, though.

 

Color television was invented by different people using different techniques.

True.
I was referring the the NTSC analog color format that became the US standard, and the first widely used for commercial color TV broadcasts.
Of course there were others, such as the PAL derivative from Germany, and SECAM (Something Essentially Contrary to the American Method) from France.

 

I think you missed my point.

I had great respect for Ma Bell, I have very little respect for Verizon.

When I asked for help because my answering machine was not compatible with their VoIP...nope sorry.

When I asked for help interfacing my security system's phone fault detect with the new FiOS system...nope sorry.

I also had/have other issues with Verizon I won't get into here.

But I'm pretty sure Ma Bell would have bent over backwards and done backflips to solve any problems I had with their system, because that what tiggers do.

(that's the kind of company they were)

What can I say, it's not about respect, it's about nostalgia of old circuit switching systems that were a pain to operate, maintain and monitor. I interfaced with Ma Bell (Western Union) at the direct technical site level back then. For me it's beyond respect as their guys did great work with the old line card based systems and were just as good with the new packet switching Service. The AUTODIN network we used back then was the precursor to the internet (it uses AUTODIN networking terminology) still used circuit switching. Memories of a lot of work in old grungy spaces instead of nostalgia.
http://jproc.ca/crypto/autodin.html

The Crypto techs had their own special room in the AUTODIN facilities. The Tech Controllers and Western Union would normally use an intercom to communicate with the Crypto people. The crypto vault at Gentille came equipped with a futon and an alarm clock. Every once in a while a Controller would have to go back there and wake up a sleeping tech.

Operations had the largest amount of space. They oversaw most of the computer activities that went on and coordinated frequently with Western Union. They also handled most of the incoming calls from the end-users. The Console Operators would check all the computer stuff out. If it checked out OK, they would use an intercom to have a Tech Controller look at the problem. If problems were related to local computer systems, Operations would normally use an intercom to contact Western Union directly.

The Tech Controllers and Western Union shift workers shared the same area. Generally, calls would come in via intercom from Operations. They normally provided a "Jack Number", which made it easy for the Tech Controllers to "punch up a circuit" on an oscilloscope. However, the Tech Controllers also got calls directly from other Tech Control facilities, Western Union, and from Job Control or Operations centers at the larger military bases.

 

What can I say, it's not about respect, it's about nostalgia of old circuit switching systems that were a pain to operate, maintain and monitor. I interfaced with Ma Bell (Western Union) at the direct technical site level back then. For me it's beyond respect as their guys did great work with the old line card based systems and were just as good with the new packet switching Service. The AUTODIN network we used back then was the precursor to the internet (it uses AUTODIN networking terminology) still used circuit switching. Memories of a lot of work in old grungy spaces instead of nostalgia.
http://jproc.ca/crypto/autodin.html

While I did like COs with with step-by-step, crossbar, panel, and rotary switches and used to listen to them when I made calls—all their self noise, telephonics, and the like, as well as the ring generators, tone plants, and AVAs and all their quirks I was talking about the organization that developed and implemented the technology to handle long distance coast-to-coast and arranged the invention of the transistor to do it.

Whose scientists, in service to the phone network invented the maser and long distance microwave communications which led to satellites and the discovery of the cosmic background radiation in the process. Who invented the laser and fiber optic data communications, and so much more that came out of Bell Labs.

I was talking about the organization that could design and build the DEW line in places where the literally first had to put land, and do it on time and secretly.

About the organization who could replace a massive totally burnt phone switch in the middle of Manhattan in just a couple of weeks, a mind boggling feat.

And I am talking about an organization that built a massive system, one on an unfathomable scale, that spanned the entire country and that nearly every American used.

Were they grungy COs? Certainly, but the switching offices in the cities all over the country were a marvel of technology and craft, and even while they maintained the circuit swtiched architecture for voice calls, they innovated in packet switched communications for OoB signaling and data transmissions.

The system also carried network TV from coast to coast, and radio networks as well. And AT&T/Bell Labs/Western Electric/and the BOCs Imagined it, invented what was missing, manufactured the equipment, and built the network.

I really don’t see that kind of vision anywhere today or the level of craft that they achieved—of the genuine commitment to idea of Universal Service. Was the phone company angelic or perfect? Hell no—but today we seem to have ONLY the not perfect part and it’s sad.

 

While I did like COs with with step-by-step, crossbar, panel, and rotary switches and used to listen to them when I made calls—all their self noise, telephonics, and the like, as well as the ring generators, tone plants, and AVAs and all their quirks I was talking about the organization that developed and implemented the technology to handle long distance coast-to-coast and arranged the invention of the transistor to do it.

Whose scientists, in service to the phone network invented the maser and long distance microwave communications which led to satellites and the discovery of the cosmic background radiation in the process. Who invented the laser and fiber optic data communications, and so much more that came out of Bell Labs.

I was talking about the organization that could design and build the DEW line in places where the literally first had to put land, and do it on time and secretly.

About the organization who could replace a massive totally burnt phone switch in the middle of Manhattan in just a couple of weeks, a mind boggling feat.

And I am talking about an organization that built a massive system, one on an unfathomable scale, that spanned the entire country and that nearly every American used.

Were they grungy COs? Certainly, but the switching offices in the cities all over the country were a marvel of technology and craft, and even while they maintained the circuit swtiched architecture for voice calls, they innovated in packet switched communications for OoB signaling and data transmissions.

The system also carried network TV from coast to coast, and radio networks as well. And AT&T/Bell Labs/Western Electric/and the BOCs Imagined it, invented what was missing, manufactured the equipment, and built the network.

I really don’t see that kind of vision anywhere today or the level of craft that they achieved—of the genuine commitment to idea of Universal Service. Was the phone company angelic or perfect? Hell no—but today we seem to have ONLY the not perfect part and it’s sad.

All of that is here today with companies like spaceX.

As far with AT&T/Bell Labs/Western Electric marvels, a huge slice of that magic was from government requirements and money to build those systems with almost unlimited funds (from unaccountable sources) from the tax payers. They used those funds to build the things the Military Industrial Complex needed for weapons , electronic/signals intelligence and the communications systems needed for them. They were then and still are deeply involved with spying and the vast sums of money from black budget spying programs. I have little nostalgia for the sort of unconstitutional activities that happened before and after the Bell breakup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairview_(surveillance_program)

Fairview is a secret program under which the National Security Agency cooperates with the American telecommunications company AT&T in order to collect phone, internet and e-mail data mainly of foreign countries' citizens at major cable landing stations and switching stations inside the United States. The FAIRVIEW program started in 1985, one year after the Bell breakup.[1]

https://www.propublica.org/article/nsa-spying-relies-on-atts-extreme-willingness-to-help

The NSA’s top-secret budget in 2013 for the AT&T partnership was more than twice that of the next-largest such program, according to the documents. The company installed surveillance equipment in at least 17 of its Internet hubs on American soil, far more than its similarly sized competitor, Verizon. And its engineers were the first to try out new surveillance technologies invented by the eavesdropping agency.

One document reminds NSA officials to be polite when visiting AT&T facilities, noting: “This is a partnership, not a contractual relationship.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

Room 641A is a telecommunication interception facility operated by AT&T for the U.S. National Security Agency, as part of its warrantless surveillance program as authorized by the Patriot Act. The facility commenced operations in 2003 and its purpose was publicly revealed by AT&T technician Mark Klein in 2006.[1][2]

Description
Room 641A is located in the SBC Communications building at 611 Folsom Street, San Francisco, three floors of which were occupied by AT&T before SBC purchased AT&T.[1] The room was referred to in internal AT&T documents as the SG3 [Study Group 3] Secure Room.

The room measures about 24 by 48 feet (7.3 by 14.6 m) and contains several racks of equipment, including a Narus STA 6400, a device designed to intercept and analyze Internet communications at very high speeds.[1] It is fed by fiber optic lines from beam splitters installed in fiber optic trunks carrying Internet backbone traffic.[3] In the analysis of J. Scott Marcus, a former CTO for GTE and a former adviser to the Federal Communications Commission, it has access to all Internet traffic that passes through the building, and therefore "the capability to enable surveillance and analysis of internet content on a massive scale, including both overseas and purely domestic traffic."[4]

The existence of the room was revealed by former AT&T technician Mark Klein and was the subject of a 2006 class action lawsuit by the Electronic Frontier Foundation against AT&T.[5] Klein claims he was told that similar black rooms are operated at other facilities around the country.[6]

https://w42st.com/post/spies-10th-avenue-secretive-history-nsa-att-building-hells-kitchen/

Investigative publication The Intercept identified eight centers where an AT&T telecom facility was purported to be using their network equipment to help the NSA monitor billions of phone calls, emails, texts, and browsing sessions across the US. In addition to two facilities in New York (at AT&T’s 811 10th Avenue (corner of W53rd Street) and the supposed NSA comms center at 33 Thomas Street), Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle and Washington DC were also identified as hosting NSA surveillance hubs backed by the telecom company.

Hell’s Kitchen’s own personal espionage center was built in 1964 as an AT&T Switching Center (then known as New York Telecom Company) — and New York’s first telecom fortress — by architecture firm Kahn and Jacobs. The 21-story building, which is actually the height of a 40-story structure due to larger-than-average floors, was designed to withstand nuclear damage — it contains no windows and is significantly set back from the street, though that didn’t stop a convertible from crashing into the building early last year.

Former AT&T engineer Thomas Saunders told The Intercept that by the 1970s the building was the largest communications hub in the country (the facility was upgraded in 2000 to become an internet data center) and due to its infrastructure, is considered to be one of the strongest buildings in the city. Saunders said that had former President George W Bush been in Manhattan on the day of the 9/11 attacks, he would have been taken to the windowless fortress for protection.

Yes, they and Uncle Sam have a long history is technical innovation that's been used and abused IMO.

 

All of that is here today with companies like spaceX.

As far with AT&T/Bell Labs/Western Electric marvels, a huge slice of that magic was from government requirements and money to build those systems with almost unlimited funds (from unaccountable sources) from the tax payers. They used those funds to build the things the Military Industrial Complex needed for weapons , electronic/signals intelligence and the communications systems needed for them. They were then and still are deeply involved with spying and the vast sums of money from black budget spying programs. I have little nostalgia for the sort of unconstitutional activities that happened before and after the Bell breakup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairview_(surveillance_program)


https://www.propublica.org/article/nsa-spying-relies-on-atts-extreme-willingness-to-help


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A


https://w42st.com/post/spies-10th-avenue-secretive-history-nsa-att-building-hells-kitchen/


Yes, they and Uncle Sam have a long history is technical innovation that's been used and abused IMO.

This is always the case. Large corporations and governments make deals and help each other. Even more so when the corporation manages the national communications infrastructure. The things I pointed out are still vailid—AT&T and the Bell System were sui generis and there’s nothing that can match it.

The difference between SpaceX and the Bell System is that SpaceX is a tiny enterprise in comparison, with a narrow focus. It does some cool stuff but provides almost nothing to most people where the Bell System providing something substantial to nearly everyone.

And it wasn’t just because they got money—that‘s a necessary but woefully insufficient factor. Bell did things at scales that are hard to imagine. They did them with great competence. What I admire about Bell was not what they did like everyone else but what they did like no one else.

 

This is always the case. Large corporations and governments make deals and help each other. Even more so when the corporation manages the national communications infrastructure. The things I pointed out are still vailid—AT&T and the Bell System were sui generis and there’s nothing that can match it.

The difference between SpaceX and the Bell System is that SpaceX is a tiny enterprise in comparison, with a narrow focus. It does some cool stuff but provides almost nothing to most people where the Bell System providing something substantial to nearly everyone.

And it wasn’t just because they got money—that‘s a necessary but woefully insufficient factor. Bell did things at scales that are hard to imagine. They did them with great competence. What I admire about Bell was not what they did like everyone else but what they did like no one else.

I respect that but disagree. They built that system as a monopoly where they owned everything including the phone in your house until they were forced to relinquish that monopoly power. They build that system holding hands with government with great competence for surveillance and sold their souls for money and protection from competition. Once you see behind the Bell curtain and see the sausage getting made, it spoils your praise for their technical prowess as a organization/group/entity even if you respect their individual technical achievements. No rose-coloured glasses here for the non-competitive government managed beast called the Bell system.

https://www.historyfactory.com/insights/this-month-in-business-history-bell-system/

Forty years ago this month, the federal government settled a lawsuit with American Telephone & Telegraph Company (AT&T), prompting the breakup of one of the largest and most powerful monopolies of the 19th and 20th centuries. The shift gave rise to many local providers—which, in an ironic twist of fate, began to merge into larger, more powerful regional providers and finally into once-again national networks, albeit controlled by several major players rather than just one.

 

I respect that but disagree. They built that system as a monopoly where they owned everything including the phone in your house until they were forced to relinquish that monopoly power. They build that system holding hands with government with great competence for surveillance and sold their souls for money and protection from competition. Once you see behind the Bell curtain and see the sausage getting made, it spoils your praise for their technical prowess as a organization/group/entity even if you respect their individual technical achievements. No rose-coloured glasses here for the non-competitive government managed beast called the Bell system.

https://www.historyfactory.com/insights/this-month-in-business-history-bell-system/

Forty years ago this month, the federal government settled a lawsuit with American Telephone & Telegraph Company (AT&T), prompting the breakup of one of the largest and most powerful monopolies of the 19th and 20th centuries. The shift gave rise to many local providers—which, in an ironic twist of fate, began to merge into larger, more powerful regional providers and finally into once-again national networks, albeit controlled by several major players rather than just one.

The bottom line is that no matter whether that had a monopoly or not, or any other nefarious activity, their amazing, self-contained ability to execute mega-projects with R&D, planning, logistics, craft, and attention to detail at every level is unprecedented. It‘s as of the entire DoD suddenly became competent.

Monopoly does not guarantee the outcomes the Bell System managed. It was head and shoulders above any other system, even the (technically) very competent British Telcom, another monopoly. Yet despite the fact that monopoly should militate against the sort of vertical competency found in the Bell System—it need only extend to the keeping of the monopoly—the Bell System was constantly innovating. A lack of competition should stifle things that hit the bottom line, but it didn’t in this case.

Another example that doesn’t achieve the same scale yet offers something very similar is Ford’s River Rouge plant. Ford was also (personally) a nasty character and like IBM (another example of the species) lacked moral rectitude—but as an object lesson in enterprise level vertical integration, inventiveness, and severe competence they are marvels.

All of these organizations benefited from the Weltanschauung and zeitgeist of the US when they were formed and did their best work. To me, as I said at the beginning, this was the best of “Americanism”. Perhaps it is unavoidable that the best is paired with the worst but I don’t think so, or at least I hope not.

AT&T can serve as both a positive and negative example about what human organizations are capable of—and by the way, the original establishment of the monopoly quelled the chaos the “free market” was thrusting onto the people of the US and established something which clearly would not have been possible in a wild west scenario. Monopoly in public utilities—to whatever extent—turns out to be a good thing sometimes.