Mosfet driver DIP 8 pin chip mm33152 versus rx3152?

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by sdowney717, Sep 9, 2018.

  1. sdowney717

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Jul 18, 2012
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    mc33152 Datasheet mentions this, I bolded it.
    https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC34152-D.PDF
    'No over current or thermal protection has been designed into the device, so output shorting to VCC or ground must be avoided. Parasitic inductance in series with the load will cause the driver outputs to ring above VCC during the turn−on transition, and below ground during the turn−off transition. With CMOS drivers, this mode of operation can cause a destructive output latchup condition. The MC34152 is immune to output latchup. The Drive Outputs contain an internal diode to VCC for clamping positive voltage transients.'

    The 12vdc to 120vac inverter came with RX3152, which seems to be the same function, but I was wondering if this MC33152 is better?

    My problem with this inverter is everytime the output is overloaded, instead of safely shutting down, it self destructs as in burns up all the input mosfets, gate resistors, and mosfet drivers. So If I rebuild it again, this will be the 3rd time. So this time instead of using RX3152, (can find on Ebay only), am going with mc33152. Will that stop the destruction, or it is something else ?

    What causes the mosfet destruction, they don't turn off under overload? Power mosfets are IRF3205. I have a set of them so I might as well use them and fix it again.

    I dont suppose any breaker in the AC output could work fast enough to keep it from burning up input mosfets?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
  2. Xavier Pacheco Paulino

    Active Member

    Oct 21, 2015
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    I have faced similar problems with a 3-phase inverter which uses MC33152 drivers. It happened that my transistors module blow up, and also gate resistors, turn-off diodes and gate drivers. I replaced all of them and the machine never failed again. I can't find the RX3152 datasheet to see if it's compatible with MC33152. Do you have a picture of the board highlighting the power stage?
     
  3. sdowney717

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Jul 18, 2012
    551
    27
    Picture shows the main input board, daughter input board is underneath.
    Below the fuses are the mosfet driver chips, 2 per board, total is 4.
    Last repair, I put them in holders to easily swap in new ones.

    Each board has 8 power mosfets, all are likely burned out.

    Album link. The large green boards are the input stage, the brown board the AC output.

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/Vjy4wNncNx1wisEu8

    20180909_094504.jpg
     
  4. sdowney717

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Jul 18, 2012
    551
    27
    Logic input A and B and Drive output A and B match my board,
    So same functionality.
    I will check other pins, but looks fine so far to swap these chips.

    I have one board repaired. But it will be a few days to get the driver chips. I do have some new Rx3152 chips.

    What I need is a 12vdc battery to test that is small enough amp output not to damage things. Last time I used a lawn mower battery. I don't want to connect it to a big battery, then see it short anything. Hook to a limited amp power source, you can run it and check for overheating mosfets using your fingers. That battery is dead, so need to figure out something else. I wonder, how about a PC PSU?
     
  5. sdowney717

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Jul 18, 2012
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    Yes, it works fine again.
    I tested with a sawzall.
    That mc33152 is a replacement for an rx3152.
    I was wondering if it is an improved mosfet driver? Maybe it will be able to shut down these mosfets when overloaded.
     
  6. Xavier Pacheco Paulino

    Active Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    627
    66
    I don't think they shut down the FETs if overloaded. But they have Undervoltage Lockout.
     
  7. sdowney717

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Jul 18, 2012
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    Somehow, this inverter's circuit protection is bad, if overloaded then instead of shutting off, mosfets burn.
    I don't know why. I have seen it shut down safely lucky me. It did that when trying to start a 1 hp pool pump motor. But if it is running a microwave, and an electric grill, and someone turns on an electric heater, that is what killed it this last time. I did not know my grandson had turned on the heater.

    So I was hoping this mosfet driver is better than the one the OEM used. It does say immune to latchup.

    I have been thinking, if it happen again, I could jump up to a IRF mosfet with 200 amp Id, an IRF3206, drill holes in the board to accommodate the larger size. Maybe it could survive then, they have much higher amp rating than IRF3205.
    https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/irfp3206pbf.pdf?fileId=5546d462533600a401535628d64a1ff0
     
  8. sdowney717

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Jul 18, 2012
    551
    27
    So far so good, it keeps working. I also accidently overloaded when turning on a single pump and it safely tripped off without a self destruction event.

    When it has failed in the past, I have been running a heavy 20 amp AC load, and add in say another 15 amp load, then it seems to not be able to safely turn off the mosfets, like they get stuck on and burn. But a sudden surge overload from a non loaded condition, circuitry safely shuts down the inverter?

    So I was wondering if these new mosfet driver chips work better. If a mosfet is heavily loaded is it harder to switch it off? Could the mosfet driver not switch off a bank of mosfets properly and then turn on another bank short circuiting many mosfet banks?
    There are 4 mosfet drivers, and each driver has 2 channels = 8. 16 mosfets are switched off and on. So two mosfets are switched off and on as a group (bank). My thinking when it fails, is a mosfet or bank is not switched off properly. Another bank is turned on and it shorts out or something else happens. Maybe a mosfet just goes bad after so many cycles of off and on? What is a power mosfet's MTBF expectation?
     
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