wayneh brought up an idea I'd like the moderators to consider. A thread about colloidal silver production. As an unsafe, ineffective, "medical" treatment, I think the forum should contemplate banning the subject.

Number Twelve

Edit: Gopher said he thought muscle stimulation circuits should be included in this prejudice against medical quackery circuits and I want to say I disagree because muscle stimulation machines are effective. Suddenly, the colloidal silver thread disappeared while I was typing.

 

Suddenly, the colloidal silver thread disappeared while I was typing.

You wield more power then you even know.

 

I do not think we will ban the subject, rather than judge case by case.

We folks around here aren't experts in medical things, only in electrical. As you noticed, there's already a disagreement between you and GopherT on muscle stimulation, which goes to show that it's not trivial knowledge.

 

Hello,

The MODS can always fall back on this part of the ToS:

Forum members must not knowingly provide any information that may adversely affect another member; this includes, but is not restricted to, information that may potentially result in injury, death, damage or destruction of property and possessions. The administration takes this matter seriously and has the right to remove any contentious content and deal with the offending member as it deems is necessary.

As said, we will judge it case by case.

Bertus

 

I've been away for awhile, but this subject grabbed my attention since I was a practicing physician (pathologist) for more than 35 years. I am glad the moderators are considering it.

There are two issue that come to mind:
1) Is it a scam (e.g., colloidal silver); and
2) If it's not a scam, is a DIY effort appropriate.

First, let there be no confusion. This and other sites have plenty of legitimate experts in medical instrumentation. Ken Moffett, as just one example, comes to mine. I see no problem with someone who wants to build an ECG circuit and benefits from his advice. The members here can give as good advice as anyone. The issue that needs to be addressed is when a poster moves from measuring to intervention.

Second, I think anything that is a well known scam needs to be censored. But what if it is not a scam, such as iontophorisis for excessive sweating of the hands and feet? That thread, if this is the correct forum, really got me worrying. What is the risk/benefit compared to, say, automotive subjects? I have seen a patient arrest from a simple throat examination and require an emergency tracheostomy.

Third, self-medication, treatment, or diagnosis of self or family members always carries a risk, even when physicians practice it. Is someone who wants to help his grandmother on the cheap a better risk?

My suggestions are:

1) If it is a scam, censor/ban it. There is no chance of benefit and always a finite chance of harm.

2) I am OK with diagnostic devices, such as EKG's, so long as they are not invasive and do not delay being properly diagnosed. That is, they are primarily for the amusement of the poster.

3) Any diagnostic device that requires percutaneous access (e.g., muscle electrodes) or other invasive procedures -- even swallowed devices -- should banned.

4) Anything for treatment of a third person should be banned.

5) If it is self treatment, put it under a microscope. Be very leery of the dangers. Consider whether helping the poster is likely to produce less harm than not helping him. The bias should be "prove it is safe" rather than "make it work." As examples, someone who is building flashing LED's for neural stimulation device for himself might get through. Someone building an iontophoresis machine probably wouldn't in my opinion.

In summary, diagnosis is OK if not invasive. Treatments are generally not OK unless the moderators can be convinced they are solely for self and have negligible risk to the individual and others. Remember at all times that risk results from both actions and inactions. Will a person's attempts at self treatment result in his failure to get timely appropriate treatment?

Regards,

John

 

I'll back up #12 on TENS units, and also Chiropractic.

Chiropractors, kept me working the last 10+ years before retirement.

Old spinal injuries, can be helped with both.
Just depends on the location and type of injury.

 

jpanhalt, I think you mean:

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/tracheostomy/about/what.html

 

If a bottle costs 100 dollar and contains little next to nothing, it is almost for sure a scam.

 

There are too many banned subjects on this forum don't you think. It's almost an advertisement for ETO at times.

So......why not add another, good idea!

Why can't some sort of website policy be put together that distances the site (or owners) from any responsibility of harm resulting from anything posted?

 

There are too many banned subjects on this forum don't you think. It's almost an advertisement for ETO at times.

So......why not add another, good idea!

Why can't some sort of website policy be put together that distances the site (or owners) from any responsibility of harm resulting from anything posted?

Yes, other forums do just that.

If you warn folks in advance.....

 

I'll back up #12 on TENS units, and also Chiropractic.

Chiropractors, kept me working the last 10+ years before retirement.

A D.O. changed me from 2-3 days a month of not being able to walk to 2-3 days a YEAR that I can't walk. He did this by "popping" my back, but after 25 years on crutches, my upper body muscles are so strong that he had to disable them to get my bones back in place. I.V. Valium would work, but a TENs machine is effective, non-invasive, and much less risky.

 

There are too many banned subjects on this forum don't you think. It's almost an advertisement for ETO at times.

So......why not add another, good idea!

Why can't some sort of website policy be put together that distances the site (or owners) from any responsibility of harm resulting from anything posted?

First of all, in the USA this is impossible.

Second, we are not ETO. Each site has its own style.

Third, there are plenty of other sites for all tastes.

 

Thanks for the lengthy exposition, jpanhalt. Your reasoning sounds sensible. I admit that I don't know much of the foreign terminology on medical topics (I'm ok with the Greek parts though ), so sometimes I don't catch what a poster is talking about with a glance.