Is it legal?

maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
All the articles on it I read said patents are worthless, especially if your not a multi billion dollar corporation. They said your better off publishing your design in a newpaper or trade journal. That way it can't be patented by someone else.
 

KMoffett

Joined Dec 19, 2007
2,918
But, they can manufacture and sell it...as long as they don't violate your copyright...which is just your printed document. Rearranging a schematic and rewording a description gets them around that. :(

Ken
 

maxpower097

Joined Feb 20, 2009
816
Of coarse but it beats a patent where you actually have to give out the recipe. The theory about publishing it in a trade journal is that once its published it can't be copyrighted or trademarked. .
 

KMoffett

Joined Dec 19, 2007
2,918
Of coarse but it beats a patent where you actually have to give out the recipe. The theory about publishing it in a trade journal is that once its published it can't be copyrighted or trademarked. .
Copyright only protects your published document, not the invention you came up with, and referred to in it. A trademark just gives you rights to use a unique image or phrase, not the concept behind an invention. Publishing may make it subject to "prior art" so it's not patentable...but it doesn't prevent the manufacture and marketing your "invention" by anybody else. In fact it might greatly increase the likelihood of you seeing it in someone's product line.

I'm not a lawyer...and I don't play one on TV. ;)

Ken
 

retched

Joined Dec 5, 2009
5,207
If it is a patented product, and is already laid out in the publicly available patent, I dont see what the problem is.

If they are trying to "remake" a product "exactly" in order to bootleg, then that is wrong.

But if they wish to learn the technology inside, and how it works, I dont see a problem.

If you want to know how a FM transmitter works, and FM transmitters are other peoples products, is that wrong?

Part of the process is improving on existing technology. If you dont know the existing technology, you CAN NOT improve upon it.
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
OK, from the discussion it comes out clearly that protecting your own invention from reverse engineering is almost impossible! But the question still remain unanswered: Is it legal that AAC forum members help other members that are openly reverse engineering somebody else invention or product?

Alberto
Hi Alberto,

Several posts ago, I give a link to a Columbia Law Review article on whether patents should include a fair use doctrine, as copyrights do. As you may recall, some posters were stating that you could make patented devices for your own use (e.g., invoking a fair use doctrine), yada, yada. While it might be comforting to ones conscience to believe that, it is not true yet in the USA. In other countries it may be.

The reasons people get by with doing that are varied, but most probably get back to the cost of enforcement vs. reward for a company to go after an individual. That equation changes immensely when it is company vs. company, or company vs. group. Along with the Columbia Law article, I reviewed several articles about other actionable causes, including inducement to and facilitation of infringement of patents. Remember, too, most patent actions begin with a simple letter to cease and desist. If you comply, noting more usually happens.

I think the answer to your question is to use good judgment. Our moderators would be the most likely ones a patent holder would go after. They have the deep pockets. ;) However, in a recent case in the news, a plastic surgeon subpoened the IP addresses from a site of individuals who had written critical reviews of his work. He was able to determine from that information the identity of posters, and he is suing them for slander, libel, loss of income, etc. So, individuals who participate in enabling someone to infringe a patent or who encourage someone by saying, "don't worry its legal," are not completely off the hook in the US. Of course, that is going to vary by country. (BTW, Violating a patent is not a criminal offense per se. There may be criminal offenses in addition to it, though. It is clear from the way "legal" was used in the comments that the meaning was that you could not be sued for infringement.)

On the other hand, if someone says, "hey, I want to know how the motor controller in this RadioShack car works, are we going to deny help because it might be patented? There is a current thread about Northstar. I don't think the intent is to duplicate Northstar, but rather to know in a block diagram manner how it works so something providing a similar function might be made.

In sum, I think developing hard and fast rules would be impossible. We do have a rule about not discussing illegal activities and have extended that rule to apply to activities that are prohibited, but not necessarily illegal, such as copyright infringement. I think patent infringement would come under the same umbrella. I wish it would also be extended to some of the crazy health and medical device discussions we see here.

The case of the plastic surgeon should be sufficient warning for those non-moderators who think they might have immunity for advice they give here.

John
 
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GetDeviceInfo

Joined Jun 7, 2009
2,192
Is it legal that AAC forum members help other members that are openly reverse engineering somebody else invention or product?
There are no laws that specifically prevent one from reverse engineering.

However, one must consider thier relationship to the holder of the concern.

EULAs, and similar instruments are often implied upon the purchaser or reciet of many products. The legal wieght of such implied relationships will depend on the financial braun of the supplier.

Confidentiallity agreements have greater wieght as they are specific, rather than implied.

Are you an accomplice to a knowing offender? You may be named if the accusing entity feels injured enough and you represent a viable resource.

Hardly law, but board rules can certainly hush conversation. The owner of the board would be the most exposed should a furious concept owner percieve loss through board discussion.
 

debe

Joined Sep 21, 2010
1,389
So how safe is it to reverse engineer a component & rebuild it to repair it & then post the circuit & how it was repaired (GMC generator AVR). Here in Autralia the component apeared to be unavalable, the only source i could find was a Chinese company but the min order was 500units, i only needed 1. Daryl
 

GetDeviceInfo

Joined Jun 7, 2009
2,192
Here's an example of what I've gotten away with;
http://www.sunlesssystems.com

This product was swirling with legal battles at the time I was involved. One thing, was that I avoided using the logo of the company.

The company actually took the content from my site and posted it on thier own site. I issued a notice and they promptly removed the content.
 

retched

Joined Dec 5, 2009
5,207
How tan are you? ;)

I had a girlfriend in college who painted me up with cheap self-tan lotion.

we were drinking, and the lotion did not get rinsed off. I slept in it.

I was ORANGE for more than a week.

(She was covered with orange spots.) ;)
 

GetDeviceInfo

Joined Jun 7, 2009
2,192
How tan are you?
I did a tan on every installation, mixed results, but the parties were always fun. Considering the target market was 18-35 year old women, and that the bulk of the salons were run by women, it was a few good years.
 
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