Is HVDC substation power transformer use PCB ? (Printed Circuit Board)

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
494
I just curious :) , Is Power Transformer inside High Voltage DC substation and transmission use PCB ?, and what kind of material they use ?
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
9,526
PCB= Poly Chlorinated Biphenol. Probably not any NEW transformers, because of the toxic effects of the PCBs. But that is here in the USA. The rules are quite different in some other parts of the world.
BUT those PCB chemicals worked very well in transformers.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
9,526
Look back at post #1 " Power Transformer inside High Voltage DC substation and transmission use PCB ? " A Printed Circuit board would not be a rational thought inside a high voltage transformer. And one of the very first questions posted by this person was about testing large transformers. So this TS does know a bit about big transformers.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
8,886
Look back at post #1 " Power Transformer inside High Voltage DC substation and transmission use PCB ? " A Printed Circuit board would not be a rational thought inside a high voltage transformer. And one of the very first questions posted by this person was about testing large transformers. So this TS does know a bit about big transformers.
Did you miss where he asked about HVDC? You do know a transformer won't work on DC? And a PCB of some sort would be needed to convert to AC. Like a very high voltage value inverter. And that would be made on some sort of PCB.
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
494
Look back at post #1 " Power Transformer inside High Voltage DC substation and transmission use PCB ? " A Printed Circuit board would not be a rational thought inside a high voltage transformer. And one of the very first questions posted by this person was about testing large transformers. So this TS does know a bit about big transformers.
I know yes... some transformer use Polychlorinated Biphenol, but I am asking for printed circuit, if it isn't using Printed Circuit Board, so... what components do they use for stuffs like converting DC to AC / vice versa ?, how to connect something like High Voltage IGBT ?, is they use something like printed copper busbar instead printed circuit board ?, or maybe use terminal blocks instead using PCB to connect components like IGBT,... ?, and inverter in HVDC is still using semiconductor right ?

Did you miss where he asked about HVDC? You do know a transformer won't work on DC? And a PCB of some sort would be needed to convert to AC. Like a very high voltage value inverter. And that would be made on some sort of PCB.
Do you think is there any semiconductor/silicon components in HVDC transformer ?, something like IGBT ?, is they combine components like IGBT with conventional transformer ?, and do they connects components like this inside high voltage stuffs ?

Is they use wire and cable lungs directly to HVDC components like this 3.3kV and 1.2kA IGBT ?

Is they use wire and cable lungs directly to HVDC components like this 3.3kV and 1.2kA IGBT ?
I found it from wikipedia
 

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MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
23,802
I know yes... some transformer use Polychlorinated Biphenol, but I am asking for printed circuit, if it isn't using Printed Circuit Board, so... what components do they use for stuffs like converting DC to AC / vice versa ?, how to connect something like High Voltage IGBT ?, is they use something like printed copper busbar instead printed circuit board ?, or maybe use terminal blocks instead using PCB to connect components like IGBT,... ?, and inverter in HVDC is still using semiconductor right ?
HV DC power transmission is used extensively in my province, Originally they used Thyratons & Ignitrons to convert, minimum, if any PCB involved, now they are all SCR/solid state equivalent devices.
Again, very little PCB involved .
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
9,526
Did you miss where he asked about HVDC? You do know a transformer won't work on DC? And a PCB of some sort would be needed to convert to AC. Like a very high voltage value inverter. And that would be made on some sort of PCB.
I am fully aware that the TS asked about high voltage DC, AND I am also quite aware that there are some high voltage DC transmission lines in operation, which may be how it is done in the future. I am ALSO aware that these transmission lines must somehow convert that high DC voltage back to AC, and that there will most probably be some large oil filled transformers involved. NOT DC transformers, but the AC type, still very much part of the substation.
So while the request did seem a small bit strange, it did make sense. Aside from that, I own DC power supplies that also include transformers. I even own DC input supplies that include transformers. This TS is probably in a part of the world that is intending to use high voltage DC power lines, and the TS may even be part of the crew selected to make that happen. It would not be the first time that a new engineer has asked for help here.

In summary, even though the name includes DC there are usually transformers as part of the system. Not always, but usually.
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
23,802
AND I am also quite aware that there are some high voltage DC transmission lines in operation, which may be how it is done in the future.
It has been done for a few years here now due to the long distances, in general, it is old technology.
Hence Ignitrons!!
After re-conversion, obviously local transformer sub stations are used
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
494
I am fully aware that the TS asked about high voltage DC, AND I am also quite aware that there are some high voltage DC transmission lines in operation, which may be how it is done in the future. I am ALSO aware that these transmission lines must somehow convert that high DC voltage back to AC, and that there will most probably be some large oil filled transformers involved. NOT DC transformers, but the AC type, still very much part of the substation.
So while the request did seem a small bit strange, it did make sense. Aside from that, I own DC power supplies that also include transformers. I even own DC input supplies that include transformers. This TS is probably in a part of the world that is intending to use high voltage DC power lines, and the TS may even be part of the crew selected to make that happen. It would not be the first time that a new engineer has asked for help here.

In summary, even though the name includes DC there are usually transformers as part of the system. Not always, but usually.
My team is just make some medium voltage DC transmission from main office building to building power plant (solar panel with 240kw at peak hour), and distance in this area is about 800 meters, yesterday we try with 12kV DC transmission system with 120mm bare copper wire + 185mm underground MV cable (overhead line, except when enter main building it was used underground cable) to reduce losses
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
494
and who changed my post title ? it seems incorrect "printed circuit board" instead wrong "printed circuiti board"
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
8,886
HV DC power transmission is used extensively in my province, Originally they used Thyratons & Ignitrons to convert, minimum, if any PCB involved, now they are all SCR/solid state equivalent devices.
Again, very little PCB involved .
I have been thinking about this answer, and don't quite understand it. The Thyratrons and Ignititrons I thought were rectifiers. Wouldn't it take some sort of inverter to convert the HVDC back to AC of the correct frequency?
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
23,802
I have been thinking about this answer, and don't quite understand it. The Thyratrons and Ignititrons I thought were rectifiers. Wouldn't it take some sort of inverter to convert the HVDC back to AC of the correct frequency?
They are used either end in the conversion process.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
9,526
Thyratrons are similar in operation to an SCR, which I have owned an inverter that used SCRs to switch the source voltage to the transformer. It is possible to have them switch off by reducing the voltage, but it is a complex operation mode. I would not attempt such a design, but I have seen them working so I know it could be done.
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
23,802
Thyratrons are similar in operation to an SCR, which I have owned an inverter that used SCRs to switch the source voltage to the transformer.
The power devices used are Ignitrons which are similar to the SCR but the trigger operates in a pool of mercury in order to trigger conduction at a much higher current than the SCR..
Used extensively in the 60's for projection and seam welders.
 
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