Ionizing anti-static air guns.

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,112
Are they snake oil? The working principle is not obvious to me and the websites that sell them (so far) have the look and feel of the websites selling HHO generator kits.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,643
I worked at a place where they made plastic car interior parts for a few years. In their paint department they use an air gun that I'm assuming your talking about. When the parts came from the molding press they were put in cardboard boxes and sent to the paint department. There they were hung on racks to be painted. The parts were "dusted off" using one of the special air guns. What ever was inside the gun eliminated the static charge on the parts and the dust or even cardboard fibers from the boxes would just drop to the floor.

These guns had no electric wires hooked to them, just the air hose. So don't know what was in them but do know they worked very well to remove dust before painting the parts.
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,112
I worked at a place where they made plastic car interior parts for a few years. In their paint department they use an air gun that I'm assuming your talking about. When the parts came from the molding press they were put in cardboard boxes and sent to the paint department. There they were hung on racks to be painted. The parts were "dusted off" using one of the special air guns. What ever was inside the gun eliminated the static charge on the parts and the dust or even cardboard fibers from the boxes would just drop to the floor.

These guns had no electric wires hooked to them, just the air hose. So don't know what was in them but do know they worked very well to remove dust before painting the parts.
Yes that is what I am referring to. It is possible (probable?) That ones they had at your previous plant did have electric components, just not in the gun part. I'm seeing 2 main groups of these; ones with the magical bits in the nozzle, and ones with a magic box that is separated from the nozzle by a long hose.

I'm OK with magic, but... no that's a lie, I'm not OK with magic. I need to understand how things work to believe in them, but I will press and hold the "I believe" button long enough to try something and see how it works if someone credible vouches for it, which you have, so thank you!
 

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
7,826
I'm speculating here ... but maybe they just use ordinary compressed air. Compressed air always has a measurable degree of moisture in it, unless a special drying process is used. In fact, scheduling the purge of compressed air tanks is vital for basic maintenance.

Maybe it's the natural moisture present in compressed air that acts as an anti-static agent of sorts.
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,112
I'm speculating here ... but maybe they just use ordinary compressed air. Compressed air always has a measurable degree of moisture in it, unless a special drying process is used. In fact, scheduling the purge of compressed air tanks is vital for basic maintenance.

Maybe it's the natural moisture present in compressed air that acts as an anti-static agent of sorts.
They require a compressed air supply, they don't generate air flow as far as I understand. Seems like they just "charge" the compressed air with "ions" that make statically attracted debris want to fall of objects.
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,112
Great demo, strantor! All you need is an abundant emitter of alpha particles or a high voltage to generate the ions.
I think that's a joke but I don't know what the joke is.

I didn't make the demonstration.

Some of these antistatic guns do use nuclear
https://amstat.com/static-eliminators/anti-static-gun-nuclear/

most of them use high voltage
https://amstat.com/static-eliminators/anti-static-gun-electrical/

For clarification, I am not seeking to make one. I was wondering if the ones commercially available are more effective than compressed air alone.
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,112
For anyone curious about this, HERE is the explanation that sunk in, for me (read all the tabs on the left side).
Everything else I read either made it sound like crystal pyramids or nookyuler physics.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,643
Yes that is what I am referring to. It is possible (probable?) That ones they had at your previous plant did have electric components, just not in the gun part. I'm seeing 2 main groups of these; ones with the magical bits in the nozzle, and ones with a magic box that is separated from the nozzle by a long hose.

I'm OK with magic, but... no that's a lie, I'm not OK with magic. I need to understand how things work to believe in them, but I will press and hold the "I believe" button long enough to try something and see how it works if someone credible vouches for it, which you have, so thank you!
Nope, no electrical at all, they had a supposed "nuclear" something in them. I have one, so I went to my barn attic and looked in my spray painting stuff. No brand name on it only "BG-8" cast into the aluminum body on both side of the handle.

If this is for your S10 repaint, to eliminate junk in the paint job, they aren't very effective for that. I used it on 3 bikes I painted and while the dust blew away, not having a down drat paint booth like the company had, the dust floating in the air ,getting stirred up by the spray gun still got crap in the paint.

The next bike I just got one of those tack cloths and it worked just as well as the anti static gun, maybe even better. It all comes down to the place you paint in.

And the air through the gun from the compressor. I bought but never have used it one of the HVLP fan powered paint compressors from Tip Tools. I got it at one of their scratch and dent sales, since I live ~5miles from them I used to get some of their deals. I never used it because I didn't have the correct face mask for the hardened urethane paint and got chemical pneumonia from doing two bikes a week apart. I got the 3stage one from Tip ,compressor, gun and hose in a kit.
https://www.tptools.com/HVLP-Paint-Systems.html
 

MrSalts

Joined Apr 2, 2020
2,376
They work well and any company doing an injection molding process called "film-inset-molding" or painting plastic parts suffer from static build-up that is not easily dissipated from plastics so ion-generators (plasma generators) are commonly used. For a quick hit, you can also quickly pass a propane torch near the plastic - go quickly, no need to heat the plastic, just need to capture a very small amount of the free radicals of incomplete combustion on the static surface of the plastic. Sometimes a torch works and some times it doesn't.

Call a reputable vendor and buy one if you need one. I don't understand the skepticism of a common tool, common science and proven results. If you need to see one in action, go to a trade show on plastics processing, you'll surely see several manufacturers or reps demonstrating (the same demo as showing in the video which was likely filmed at a trade show).
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,112
Nope, no electrical at all, they had a supposed "nuclear" something in them. I have one, so I went to my barn attic and looked in my spray painting stuff. No brand name on it only "BG-8" cast into the aluminum body on both side of the handle.

If this is for your S10 repaint, to eliminate junk in the paint job, they aren't very effective for that. I used it on 3 bikes I painted and while the dust blew away, not having a down drat paint booth like the company had, the dust floating in the air ,getting stirred up by the spray gun still got crap in the paint.

The next bike I just got one of those tack cloths and it worked just as well as the anti static gun, maybe even better. It all comes down to the place you paint in.

And the air through the gun from the compressor. I bought but never have used it one of the HVLP fan powered paint compressors from Tip Tools. I got it at one of their scratch and dent sales, since I live ~5miles from them I used to get some of their deals. I never used it because I didn't have the correct face mask for the hardened urethane paint and got chemical pneumonia from doing two bikes a week apart. I got the 3stage one from Tip ,compressor, gun and hose in a kit.
https://www.tptools.com/HVLP-Paint-Systems.html
Ok, cool! I didn't look into the nuclear models because they require paperwork.

No it's not for my amateur auto body projects, it's for work; for "air washing" the inside of railcars that have plastic dust clinging to epoxied walls. I was instructed to choose and purchase one to be tested. I was having trouble making any selection at all because I thought the entire thing was a gimmick.

But, advice still accepted as I haven't finished that truck yet. It's primered and sitting under the lean-to behind my barn waiting for me to get bored.
 

MrSalts

Joined Apr 2, 2020
2,376
But, advice still accepted as I haven't finished that truck yet. It's primered and sitting under the lean-to behind my barn waiting for me to get bored.
Some primers are very porous and grab paint well but not intended as the final coat - the talc and other inorganic fillers can hydrate and lift off the steel - and quickly rust. All of your hard work will go to waste. I suggest that you get bored soon.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,643
They work well and any company doing an injection molding process called "film-inset-molding"
That company also did that. Mostly on GM car dash inserts that had the fake wood grain on them. It saved one step in making them, putting a self stick applique on after molding. The assembly people seem to have a problem positioning the applique correctly, and you only had one shot doing it.
 

MrSalts

Joined Apr 2, 2020
2,376
That company also did that. Mostly on GM car dash inserts that had the fake wood grain on them. It saved one step in making them, putting a self stick applique on after molding. The assembly people seem to have a problem positioning the applique correctly, and you only had one shot doing it.
Modern film insert molding films usually have two or four holes punched at specific locations. The holes are used to hange the film on pins in the mold. The injected resin flows over the film and the film is "perfectly" placed. Perfectly is in quotes because it can creep at high temps or high sheer. The static is generated on the film when peeling off the protective films from the printed film.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,643
Some primers are very porous and grab paint well but not intended as the final coat
That's why most high end painters use what is called epoxy primmer directy on the bare metal, then a primer and sealer after that. The epoxy primer is also called "Y2K" primer.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,643
Modern film insert molding films usually have two or four holes punched at specific locations.
What they used was much more simple. A reel of film on one side of the mold, and a take up reel on the other side. When the mold opened the takeup reel advanced the film. The "good" side of the film faced the finished side of the mold cavity and the injected plastic forced it against the cavity. Crude but did the job needed.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,643
it's for work; for "air washing" the inside of railcars that have plastic dust clinging to epoxied walls. I was instructed to choose and purchase one to be tested.
I'm not sure your going to get the results you think you will. Just the blowing of the air will probably make new static in a closed area like a box car. It's probably going to take a pressure washer type thing to remove the plastic dust. One that uses something on the order of clothes washing or dryer sheet anti-static chemical added to the water. Static and plastic are great friends, so it takes something else to break the bonding.

The blowgun at the plastics plant only worked or was helped by the air curtain blowing the paticals down toward the floor when in use. I forgot that when first answering it was many many years ago(late 70's) and a couple of strokes ago.:)
 
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