Interesting and timely article given recent events on college campuses.

djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
6,196
Strange coincidence. I read this article and in close proximity this one, which a friend posted on Facebook.
I consider the problem of resilience to be the step-child of the nanny-state (WBahn) and entitlement (cmartinez). Young adults are suffering from delayed adolescence, coddled by their parents and institutions so that they cannot deal with trivial events. Their reaction is to blame everything around them. A demand for remediation follows. They have lost the ability to be self-sufficient and socially responsible.
 

ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770
Yep. We may have created it. Anyone hear about the lady that overslept so her 8 year old set of to walk the 2 miles to school. Somebody called the cops and they picked him up, took him to school, and arrested her.
It's not the kids that are afraid - it's the adults that brainwash them.
 

Sinus23

Joined Sep 7, 2013
245
All this has much to do with as the article took note of, the matter of fear and overprotecting our children from dangers. This has made the last generations on average a bit more cocky than those before since they have a false sense of protection and authority. The only thing I approve of in this campaign of PC is to try to reduce bullying. It will probably never go extinct but I don't know about you but when I finally said no more mister nice guy and showed the guy which was bullying me, what is what I was sent to the principal.:rolleyes: So fighting back did not pay that time...
 

djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
6,196
That happened to my. I lost it and took the bully down. Stitches in his face and an arm cast. It also earned me a trip to the principal. After teaming me out, he paused, and said that he was glad I did what I did. I returned to the classroom and nothing further was said.
 

Sinus23

Joined Sep 7, 2013
245
The bully which I took on walked away pretty much unharmed. After he caught his breath there is...:oops: The "trip to the principal" was more like me and the principal arguing loudly with each other in the teachers faculty. When we'd both chilled down I was like you sent back to class.

Me and the guy I confronted never talked about it again(other people did since we were as noticeable as WWF when it happened). We talked about pretty much anything else instead.:cool:
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,194
All this has much to do with as the article took note of, the matter of fear and overprotecting our children from dangers. This has made the last generations on average a bit more cocky than those before since they have a false sense of protection and authority. The only thing I approve of in this campaign of PC is to try to reduce bullying. It will probably never go extinct but I don't know about you but when I finally said no more mister nice guy and showed the guy which was bullying me, what is what I was sent to the principal.:rolleyes: So fighting back did not pay that time...
When my stepson was sent to the principals office for fighting, my wife was very upset. At first she was giving him grief for fighting, but, when she heard he was defending himself, even the principal's earlier words about fighting became null and void. So, going to the principal's office for fighting, and if it was self defense, I would have told the principal to talk to the instigator, not me.
 

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,225
All this has much to do with as the article took note of, the matter of fear and overprotecting our children from dangers.
I agree. I identified that as a problem before I even had kids. I watch those around me, won't let their kids eat bread because they *might* be allergic to gluten. WTF was "gluten" when I was growing up? Or they put a leash on the kid in the mall to spare it the mental anguish of wandering out of eyesight while the parents facebook in the shoe department. And they refuse to give the kid any forceful correction (spanking); choosing instead to try and reason with someone who hasn't developed any sound reasoning skills - "now, honey, you remember what we talked about? the way you're acting isn't good. What's your calm word? can you say your calm word?..." meanwhile the kid just screams profanities and collapses on the ground.

We conquered the need to discipline our kids by creating a world where they don't need discipline; we coddle them, their teachers coddle them, their professors or drill seargents will coddle them, and then their bosses and/or the police will coddle them, lest someone scream "bully!". We conquered the need for hard work by creating a world where if you are lazy, someone else will feed you.

So in my house, we utilize the tried and true methods. Most of candie-assed parents my age would something to say if they saw how I handle my kids, should my kids act like their kids. But, they won't see my kids act like their kids, ever. Not if they're sleepy, or just drank a coke, or if I just told them "no."
 

Thread Starter

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
25,296
When my dad was in school (he graduated in 1945) if two kids were caught fighting it was broken up and both kids had to report to the football coach after school who gave them boxing gloves and had them duke it out. Exceptions were made on a case by case basis, for instance a significant size difference or in the case of a known, mean bully (in which case the coach had a stable of suitable "stand-ins"). My dad, who was very overweight and hence teased a lot and who didn't take teasing well, sometimes had two or three people in a line to deal with after school. He said that by the time you got to the ring, the emotions had settled down and now it was just a low-stakes boxing match instead of a fever-driven fistfight. Some of the people he fought went on to be some of his best friends, including a couple that came to his funeral more than half a century later.
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,194
I visited that blog mentioned in your link @WBahn .
Our blog is primarily for students who have been marginalized at Oberlin. We welcome submissions by marginalized students who wish to speak about their lived experiences.
Children still have childish arguments. Only now the world is treated to them by means of the internet.

Don't get me wrong, every accusation of wrongdoing should be dealt with appropriately, following due process. Whether the due process is one dealing with the law, or however the college sets up a disciplinary committee. I doubt the sanctions would include dismissal, as the college see's green, and I don't mean the school colors.

I guess that school is in the "burn the witches" mode.
 

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,225
I guess that school is in the "burn the witches" mode.
It goes far beyond that school. From my POV, all of society is in "burn the witches" mode.

Take this for what it's worth, from a 30y/o who's only began to observe and (partially) understand the nuances of society for maybe 15 years (much of my opinion is based on my *perception* of what limited history I have learned): from my POV, minorities (esp Black) fought a righteous fight for forever to attain equality. They mostly achieved their goal and for the most part the animosity settled down. Then political correctness came around and set its aim to eradicate any remaining unfairness and animosity, and for a fleeting moment probably did just that. But that moment was so brief I doubt anybody could identify it. Almost in the same breath as victory, PC continued charging into a battle that was already won. PC took the battle all the way through the battlefield and into the homes of recent oppressors. Policies and quotas were erected which did not enforce fairness, but instead awared spoils of war to the new victors.

This took a few generations to happen, and we find those reaping the spoils of war are not the ones who fought the war, and are not the ones who deserve the spoils. Yet they are indoctrinated into the victim society and have been well trained in the art of demanding recompense. Recompense for crimes they never witnessed but claim otherwise.

The tables turned but the new victors still demanded more, and more, and are still demanding and getting ever more militant in their demands. Recent protests involving looting and burning and police intervention, seem to be like pre packaged witch burning kits, waiting on a shelf somewhere for any little excuse to unbox them.
 

boatsman

Joined Jan 17, 2008
186
WBahn said:
At least there are still some people some where with the gonads to call these whiny babies out for what they are:
As cmartinez so rightly says, they are the exceptions. People, especially university students and so-called professors, have no integrity they follow the latest fad like sheep follow a bell wether. Opinions that don't match with theirs are shouted down. They don't have the courtesy to listen to any opinion other than the one they are promoting. Their motto is 'don't confuse me with facts; my mind is made up.'
 

djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
6,196
Not all people are sheep. Not all sheep are people. However, in many (dare I say) most cases in an educational environment, the students (aka sheep) are paying dearly (even public education has a cost) for the privilege of listening to their educators opinions. And to receive this privileges, a certain social behavior is rightly expected.

You don't disrespect those whom you have sought out for their wisdom, even if you may find yourself in disagreement. This lack of proper behavior is the fault of whom? The student? Their parents? Both? I don't see the educators inviting rudeness.

Nor do I think they ever imagined they would need to be social surrogates. It must be appalling for a teacher to find themselves in front of rude, disruptive, inattentive, irresponsible - I could go on - poor excuses for a human being.
 

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
6,790
Nor do I think they ever imagined they would need to be social surrogates. It must be appalling for a teacher to find themselves in front of rude, disruptive, inattentive, irresponsible - I could go on - poor excuses for a human being.
I agree, I have several friends in the US and Canada who are school teachers, and they agree that most of the problem (other than the student's environment) lies in the fact that the parents have taken away their power to correct and rectify misbehaving students. The result has been a generation of disrespectful jerks with an attitude that no longer see their teachers for what they should be, that is as mentors, but now look upon them as servants.
 

Thread Starter

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
25,296
Nor do I think they ever imagined they would need to be social surrogates. It must be appalling for a teacher to find themselves in front of rude, disruptive, inattentive, irresponsible - I could go on - poor excuses for a human being.
Trust me, it is.

And I only see a mild form of it since, by and large, students majoring in STEM are much more likely to be attending class with the intent of actually learning something that will make them productive members of society. The fraction of students in many other areas that are just there to take up a seat while they "find themselves" is much higher. And the social activism amongst the faculty in those areas is also much higher. Professors in STEM are much more likely to keep their political beliefs out of the classroom, or at least strongly muted.

But the victim culture is invading STEM, too. I've had to contend with several of these this semester. One thing that I have done for years if given review sheets before exams, telling students that some of the problems are intended to push their knowledge and require that they give some thought to the problem. I explicitly tell them that the first time they solve it might take much longer than that what is reasonable on an exam, but once they have figured out how to solve it the problem can be worked in just a few minutes. I then warn them that if they first time they try to solve it is when they are taking the test, that that is a choice that they have made. I also tell them that at least 25% of the exam points will come from the review sheets or prior exams verbatim (and the actual fraction is usually between 50% and 75%). I have an in-class review before the exam and if anyone asks about one of those questions I will describe in detail how to tackle it, often working it on the board.

None of the problems ask things that are outside the scope of the course and/or its prerequisites. For example, one question presents the Stirling formula for estimating the value of n! for large n. The problem then asks the student to write a function that takes the value n and returns the number of digits in n!. Prior material, discussed at least three different times in class, cover how to determine how many digits are needed to represent a given positive integer. If you understand just one very simple concept, namely that B^N is the smallest (N+1) digit base-B value, then you can apply that to get the solution in just a couple lines of simple math. But increasingly students cannot grasp mathematical concepts but rather rely on rote memorization of formulas without any comprehension of what those formulas mean, and so they are incapable of synthesizing solutions to a new problem using their understanding of how to solve other problems. Well, the only way they will ever learn how to do that is to solve new problems without being shown step by step how to do it.

But expecting them to do so is now seen as abusive by many of them. This semester I have a student that lodged a complaint directly to the Dean of the College claiming that this creates a "toxic environment" that is "robbing him of the education he deserves". Many of the emotion-driven devices described in the article in the OP are on full display.

He further complains that the homework is too hard and covers material not in the book. When pressed, the best example he was able to come up with was that the first homework problem, which asked them to find the sum of all prime numbers that are less than one million, required them to be able to determine if a particular number was prime. The assignment specifically told them that they could use any method they wanted to, now matter how brute force. In class I specifically mentioned that the most basic, brain-dead approach is to simply walk through all of the positive integers greater than one but less than the number and see if any of them evenly divide the number.
 
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