I'm not embarrassed, honest!

Thread Starter

Niggleanotherday

Joined Oct 12, 2019
6
I just got an estim, for which I admit I paid hundreds of £££. However, it seems to me this kit has already failed.


I would like to know what kit I would need to test it.


The control box runs from a 240v mains supply that has a Switching Adapter to 12 volts and 1 amp. The control box has two output jacks, both size 2.5mm. I use either jack, connecting it to a pair of mono-pole skin pads. Each of these can be controlled independently of the other. Each has its own beacon that lights up when a pulse flows. I believe the circuit between the mono-poles completes through the flesh.


On the second occasion of operating these, while I still have both beacons lighting up, only one of the pads produces a current I can feel. The other does not, even when I turn its adjuster to maximum, at which point I hope the circuit won’t complete spontaneously.


What type of “flow” and over what operating range would the tester need to be sensitive to, to check the output of this feed?
 

atferrari

Joined Jan 6, 2004
3,382
Crystall ball cannot see the details and cannot even know what an estim is.

Show a schematic or maybe a block diagram or pictures or a drwaing.
 

bertus

Joined Apr 5, 2008
19,944
Hello,

As far as I can tell an estim is some electro stimulation device.
It comes in MANY different types and shapes.
Please show a picture what you have, so we can see if it is allowed on this forum.
If not, the thread will be deleted.

Bertus
 

Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
4,466
A link to your exact product would really help with this. While all of these machines have added definitions they are all variations of a TENS Machine where the idea is to use electrical impulses to get muscle stimulation. My wife and I just bought a small unit so she can use it at home when not at outpatient physical therapy. This is just a little tiny hand held battery powered unit much unlike the one at the hospital physical therapy unit. The difference between what we have at home and what the hospital has is likely a few thousand US dollars.

A minimum of two pads is required as the pads are mono pole and the current path is between to two pads. The pads are just sticky back conductive pads. You swab the skin surface with an alcohol pad and then place a sticky back pad on the skin surface. The electrical pulses stimulate the muscle tissue in the current path, much like a AED (Automatic External Defibrillator) on a very tiny scale. You don't need to scream "clear". :)

These things come with features, like options on a new car or truck. A very basic cheapie will just provide a pulse train. A more expensive version will maybe give the option of pulse burst. For example 5 second of pulses at a given frequency they a 5 to 15 second pause then repeat. Output amplitude is adjustable so an output can be increased up until the patient is physically uncomfortable then reduced. The idea being muscle stimulation and not shock therapy. :)

Each has its own beacon that lights up when a pulse flows. I believe the circuit between the mono-poles completes through the flesh.
I have no clue what a beacon light is? This is where a link to the manual would be nice for your specific unit.
On the second occasion of operating these, while I still have both beacons lighting up, only one of the pads produces a current I can feel. The other does not, even when I turn its adjuster to maximum, at which point I hope the circuit won’t complete spontaneously.
If you can feel it then both pads are conducting and working since two pads are required as a minimum for current flow. When the pads are properly placed and the skin surface clean you should be able to feel the muscle tissue between the pads convulse and release. The fact that you may feel a small shock where one pad is mounted just leads me to believe that pad's skin surface is allowing the feeling you get.

My Best Guess less a manual on the product.
Ron
 

Thread Starter

Niggleanotherday

Joined Oct 12, 2019
6
Crystall ball cannot see the details and cannot even know what an estim is.

Show a schematic or maybe a block diagram or pictures or a drwaing.
--

As far as I can tell an estim is some electro stimulation device.
It comes in MANY different types and shapes.
Please show a picture what you have, so we can see if it is allowed on this forum.
If not, the thread will be deleted.

Bertus


I find both these answers surprising.

If I could refer you to >https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/safe-current-limits-for-pulsed-electrical-stimulation.120068/
, this might assist your answer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Thread Starter

Niggleanotherday

Joined Oct 12, 2019
6
If you can feel it then both pads are conducting and working since two pads are required as a minimum for current flow. When the pads are properly placed and the skin surface clean you should be able to feel the muscle tissue between the pads convulse and release. The fact that you may feel a small shock where one pad is mounted just leads me to believe that pad's skin surface is allowing the feeling you get.

My Best Guess less a manual on the product.
Ron[/QUOTE]


Thanks. The fact that I didn't get a manual and that the thing is showing signs of failing after only two sessions is why I am embarrassed to have spent so much on it. I renewed the pads and the jack plug to check that conductivity was not the problem and the same failure occurred. No shock; indeed, no nothing from one of the pads. Swapping the leads produces the same lack of activity in the alternate pad. I think the fault is in the electronics.
 

Thread Starter

Niggleanotherday

Joined Oct 12, 2019
6
I think it is probably intelligent to suggest that the human skin has a typical range of receptivity to electrical contact, and that most folk will find a certain amount of electricity pleasing and by degrees less pleasing until a current is reached that will cause them pain. If that is so, I would expect most electrical stimulaters for topical application to persons to have similar electrical values. I have no idea what these may be and I hope someone here can tell me. If he or she could also suggest how to test the estim's output for those values, that would be perfect.
 

Reloadron

Joined Jan 15, 2015
4,466
If you can feel it then both pads are conducting and working since two pads are required as a minimum for current flow. When the pads are properly placed and the skin surface clean you should be able to feel the muscle tissue between the pads convulse and release. The fact that you may feel a small shock where one pad is mounted just leads me to believe that pad's skin surface is allowing the feeling you get.

My Best Guess less a manual on the product.
Ron

Thanks. The fact that I didn't get a manual and that the thing is showing signs of failing after only two sessions is why I am embarrassed to have spent so much on it. I renewed the pads and the jack plug to check that conductivity was not the problem and the same failure occurred. No shock; indeed, no nothing from one of the pads. Swapping the leads produces the same lack of activity in the alternate pad. I think the fault is in the electronics.[/QUOTE]
I will wing it and while I have never tried to view the pulse signals that they may be able to be viewed on a scope. Our next therapy appointment (Tuesday) we plan to bring the little unit my wife bought and get suggestions from her physical therapist. Not having a good user manual for your unit is a real drawback. We did get one with my wife's little inexpensive (cheap) unit but I have yet to read it. :)

Ron
 

Thread Starter

Niggleanotherday

Joined Oct 12, 2019
6
[QUOTE
I will wing it and while I have never tried to view the pulse signals that they may be able to be viewed on a scope... Not having a good user manual for your unit is a real drawback. We did get one with my wife's little inexpensive (cheap) unit but I have yet to read it. :)

Thanks, Ron. I might be able to find a downloadable manual from an online search. I expect an oscilloscope is an expensive piece of kit. I was faintly hoping to be told I could use a multimeter tester or something like that.

My main problem is a lack of self confidence. What if the menders (under guarantee) say I have broken it, or if they just replace the connecting jack and the fault remains? I want some empirical evidence that there is a demonstrable fault so I can assert my consumer rights.

I hope your physio will provide your missus with some good suggestions. As your unit sounds effective, no-one could fault you for not consulting the manual. Enough complex technology is enough complex technology I say. Thank you again.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
P General Electronics Chat 6
Top