I am confused in choosing my Major

Thread Starter

Damien De Silva

Joined May 20, 2017
28
My options are :
B.Eng in Computer Systems Engineering
B.Eng in Electrical and Electronic Engineering.
CSE has Engineers Australia Accrediton but EEE doesn't have acredition yet. This is the only thing that don't let me choose EEE.
 

danadak

Joined Mar 10, 2018
3,911
Look at the course descriptions required for degree. Maybe rank
them in 1-5 importance in an excel spread sheet, and then add them
up to see where your self interest lies. A decision matrix.

Spme might advocate looking at what job market is asking for, I think
expertise / performance follows interest, and that what you do well in
will serve you well.

Regards, Dana.
 

Thread Starter

Damien De Silva

Joined May 20, 2017
28
Look at the course descriptions required for degree. Maybe rank
them in 1-5 importance in an excel spread sheet, and then add them
up to see where your self interest lies. A decision matrix.

Spme might advocate looking at what job market is asking for, I think
expertise / performance follows interest, and that what you do well in
will serve you well.

Regards, Dana.
Thanks a lot, I will try that !!!!!!
 

Thread Starter

Damien De Silva

Joined May 20, 2017
28
If you really want to do EEE, why not find a school that is accredited in that discipline?

https://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/sites/default/files/resource-files/2017-03/Engineers_Australia_Accredited_Programs_1.pdf

Given the immense size and diversity of Australia, it seems more logical to study what interests you than what happens to be available nearby.
I have already started the degree in Computer Systems Engineering at Cutin University. From this year onwards Curtin University removed the CSE degree and instead of that, there is a new Degree in EEE. Curtin University doesn't have Engineers Australia Accreditation for EEE degree yet. I'm not sure whether they will get the accreditation for this degree.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
25,297
Many accrediting bodies will not accredit a program until after it has graduated its first class (and possibly a year or two beyond that). If that's the case for Engineers Australia, then (most) people that look at your degree will understand that this is the case. Of course, if there is a real question of whether or not they will get accredited at the proper time, then that is a big red flag. The onus is on you to do the legwork to decide if the new program is on solid ground heading for accreditation. There are pros and cons to being in a new program, so you will have to weigh them. It is perfectly reasonable to consider sidestepping the whole issue and transferring to a program that is already established and accredited, particularly if there isn't some compelling factor arguing in favor of the new program.
 

dl324

Joined Mar 30, 2015
10,072
I have already started the degree in Computer Systems Engineering at Cutin University. From this year onwards Curtin University removed the CSE degree and instead of that, there is a new Degree in EEE.
You and other students currently in your major should lobby the school to let you complete the program you declared. If you haven't declared it as you major, that's a different issue.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
25,297
You and other students currently in your major should lobby the school to let you complete the program you declared. If you haven't declared it as you major, that's a different issue.
The TS can confirm, but I had the idea that he is already in the old major (new students can't enter since it is no longer being offered, but existing students can complete it) and is trying to decide whether to switch to the new degree program.

If it IS a case that they won't let him continue in his existing program, then in most places the school would be legally liable for breach of contract.
 

Thread Starter

Damien De Silva

Joined May 20, 2017
28
Many accrediting bodies will not accredit a program until after it has graduated its first class (and possibly a year or two beyond that). If that's the case for Engineers Australia, then (most) people that look at your degree will understand that this is the case. Of course, if there is a real question of whether or not they will get accredited at the proper time, then that is a big red flag. The onus is on you to do the legwork to decide if the new program is on solid ground heading for accreditation. There are pros and cons to being in a new program, so you will have to weigh them. It is perfectly reasonable to consider sidestepping the whole issue and transferring to a program that is already established and accredited, particularly if there isn't some compelling factor arguing in favor of the new program.
Thanks a lot for the information !!!!
 

Thread Starter

Damien De Silva

Joined May 20, 2017
28
The TS can confirm, but I had the idea that he is already in the old major (new students can't enter since it is no longer being offered, but existing students can complete it) and is trying to decide whether to switch to the new degree program.

If it IS a case that they won't let him continue in his existing program, then in most places the school would be legally liable for breach of contract.
Yeah you are exactly right. Also, curtin university has one of their university in Malaysia and the EEE degree in this has Engineers Australia Acredition and the accredition of their own board. So, it gives me a feeling that Australian Campus wil get theirs.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
25,297
Yeah you are exactly right. Also, curtin university has one of their university in Malaysia and the EEE degree in this has Engineers Australia Acredition and the accredition of their own board. So, it gives me a feeling that Australian Campus wil get theirs.
That is probably a very reasonable feeling. You might check into the differences, if any, between the two curricula, but I would think that the Australian campus has a very strong motive for mimicking the existing, accredited program except in minor details that they are confident will have no negative impact on receiving accreditation in turn.

As a perhaps useful anecdote, in the U.S. the accreditation body for many technical programs is ABET (Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology) and one of their requirements to even schedule an accreditation visit is that the program must have at least one graduate as of the year prior to the visit. The idea is that the visiting committee can then assess the program from end-to-end not only on what it claims it intends to do, but on what the record shows it actually did. So it is not uncommon at all for students to find themselves in exactly your situation. The real question is what, if any, impact is there in graduating from a program that becomes accredited AFTER you graduate? I don't have an answer for that that applies to you, but I did find something regarding ABET. Since the visiting committee is evaluating the work of students that graduated the academic year prior to the visit, they MAY (not will) make the accreditation retroactive to cover students that graduated that prior year. The takeaway is that (if your accrediting board has similar rules -- which you should find out) if you graduate from your new program and they incur a delay in applying for accreditation, you may not be covered.

For some reason (possibly political), when the U.S. Air Force Academy was being stood up in the late 1950's, it was felt that it was critical that the first class of graduates had to graduate from an ABET accredited program, which technically wasn't possible under ABET rules. I seem to recall that this was a requirement in the authorizing legislation (probably because the existing programs at West Point and Annapolis were ABET accredited and possibly then written into the legislation by congressional staffs that didn't know that it wasn't possible). So a lot of negotiating went on and ABET finally laid down some pretty stringent demands on the programs if it was going to even consider waiving that rule. The USAF Academy met them and, I believe, is still the only institution with programs to be fully ABET accredited prior to producing a single graduate. I could be wrong on this last point and I was unable to either confirm or refute it.
 

Thread Starter

Damien De Silva

Joined May 20, 2017
28
That is probably a very reasonable feeling. You might check into the differences, if any, between the two curricula, but I would think that the Australian campus has a very strong motive for mimicking the existing, accredited program except in minor details that they are confident will have no negative impact on receiving accreditation in turn.

As a perhaps useful anecdote, in the U.S. the accreditation body for many technical programs is ABET (Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology) and one of their requirements to even schedule an accreditation visit is that the program must have at least one graduate as of the year prior to the visit. The idea is that the visiting committee can then assess the program from end-to-end not only on what it claims it intends to do, but on what the record shows it actually did. So it is not uncommon at all for students to find themselves in exactly your situation. The real question is what, if any, impact is there in graduating from a program that becomes accredited AFTER you graduate? I don't have an answer for that that applies to you, but I did find something regarding ABET. Since the visiting committee is evaluating the work of students that graduated the academic year prior to the visit, they MAY (not will) make the accreditation retroactive to cover students that graduated that prior year. The takeaway is that (if your accrediting board has similar rules -- which you should find out) if you graduate from your new program and they incur a delay in applying for accreditation, you may not be covered.

For some reason (possibly political), when the U.S. Air Force Academy was being stood up in the late 1950's, it was felt that it was critical that the first class of graduates had to graduate from an ABET accredited program, which technically wasn't possible under ABET rules. I seem to recall that this was a requirement in the authorizing legislation (probably because the existing programs at West Point and Annapolis were ABET accredited and possibly then written into the legislation by congressional staffs that didn't know that it wasn't possible). So a lot of negotiating went on and ABET finally laid down some pretty stringent demands on the programs if it was going to even consider waiving that rule. The USAF Academy met them and, I believe, is still the only institution with programs to be fully ABET accredited prior to producing a single graduate. I could be wrong on this last point and I was unable to either confirm or refute it.
Oh ok. The Head of the school said us that if the EEE degree gets the accreditation after we pass out still we and all the batches that passed out with the degree EEE will get the accreditation. I think I could confirm it with Engineers Australia too.

upload_2018-7-24_8-34-25.png

http://courses.curtin.edu.au/course_overview/undergraduate/electrical-electronic-engineering
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
25,297
Oh ok. The Head of the school said us that if the EEE degree gets the accreditation after we pass out still we and all the batches that passed out with the degree EEE will get the accreditation. I think I could confirm it with Engineers Australia too.
He's probably telling you the truth (perhaps oversimplifying it). Confirm it with the accrediting board to be safe. It would be unreasonable for the board to accredit all prior graduates from a program unless they can confirm that the program they graduated under was the same one as the one they are accrediting. Since programs do change and evolve over time, they are probably going to put a pretty tight window on just how retroactive the accreditation is.
 

Thread Starter

Damien De Silva

Joined May 20, 2017
28
He's probably telling you the truth (perhaps oversimplifying it). Confirm it with the accrediting board to be safe. It would be unreasonable for the board to accredit all prior graduates from a program unless they can confirm that the program they graduated under was the same one as the one they are accrediting. Since programs do change and evolve over time, they are probably going to put a pretty tight window on just how retroactive the accreditation is.
Thanks a lot for clearing my doubts !!!!!!!!!!
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,194
@WBahn I would say the only "easiness" the ABET probably had was the USAF was formerly Army Air Corp and more than likely gathered all the material they could from the other service academies that had the accreditation. That could be an interesting bit to research from the Headquarters documents in the Archives.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
25,297
Ok I've decided to change my Major to EEE.
Good luck to you in your new program. You'll probably find that being part of a new program is interesting, exciting, and very frustrating. Even if they copy the program at the other campus exactly, there are going to be the inevitable unforeseen hiccups as they discover they don't quite have the right faculty with the right background to offer every course when it's supposed to be offered while meeting all of their other commitments or that they don't quite have all the lab space or software support available that they need. Part of all of that will be that the growth in the program almost certainly will not match projections and so there will be an imbalance among the different class years. Oh, and those bumps in the road will have impacts in the other program, too, even if you hadn't switched, just probably not as hard or often. But programs deal with these kinds of problems all the time, so things might get uncomfortable but you'll all get through them -- just remember that the school has a huge vested interest in making this work.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
25,297
@WBahn I would say the only "easiness" the ABET probably had was the USAF was formerly Army Air Corp and more than likely gathered all the material they could from the other service academies that had the accreditation. That could be an interesting bit to research from the Headquarters documents in the Archives.
Almost all programs, especially ones going for initial accreditation, steal (err... uh... appropriate) materials from other accredited programs. I seem to recall being told that ABET required USAFA to do so more fully and formally. The fact that many of the initial USAFA faculty were from the other service academies helped a great deal. I suspect that the fact that ABET was dealing with a military institution helped as well simply because USAFA was in a much greater position to demand the faculty and cadets adhere to the agreements.
 
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