HT old home theater rebuild

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
12,758

djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
9,151
I hope you’re planning on rewiring for the final installation. My old boss would berate you up and down and then again. He was so OCD, he specified in the wiring contract that each cable be totally parallel with all other cables in the wiring trays and the rack patch panels. All cables were placed in groups of ten and cable tied. If one cable crossed another, we’d have to rewire the entire tray again.
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
12,758
I hope you’re planning on rewiring for the final installation. My old boss would berate you up and down and then again. He was so OCD, he specified in the wiring contract that each cable be totally parallel with all other cables in the wiring trays and the rack patch panels. All cables were placed in groups of ten and cable tied. If one cable crossed another, we’d have to rewire the entire tray again.
Dude, I worked in Naval shipyards running miles of every type of cable known to man with MIL-SPEC rules that were far beyond OCD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red/black_concept
https://web.archive.org/web/20070714145117/http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/FEDMIL/hdbk232a.pdf
Screw that stuff, it's a family media room.
PXL_20220119_024946234.jpg
I've got new speaker wire runs but most of the other audio, RF, video and networking cables will be separated, relabeled and rerouted in the ceiling using electrical conduits to the AUX equipment enclosure.
 
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Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
12,758
Cable Management, hide it.
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RF, audio and networking ceiling cable run done to the main console The projector screen mount and upper center speakers will hide the console ceiling wiring above it.
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Bass centralPXL_20220126_233610719.jpg
Cable KY LubePXL_20220127_003220786.jpg
Mono bridge to 8 ohm total speakers impedance using four subs.PXL_20220127_001955431.jpg
Isolated “separately derived” AC Power sub-panel, network and AV/RF distribution blocks for the room.
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http://wirexpress.com/wp-content/uploads/MidAtlantic-White-Paper.pdf
Properly designed and installed shielded isolation transformers can significantly reduce AC line noise that affects AV systems. There are two types of AC line noise: differential-mode and common-mode. Differential-mode noise on the power line is defined as voltage appearing between the hot and neutral conductors. Isolation transformers do not prevent differential-mode noise from passing between the primary and the secondary. The job of a power transformer is to magnetically couple 60Hz as efficiently as possible, but frequencies up to 1kHz can couple quite well. Depending upon the construction of the transformer, most frequencies above 1kHz are attenuated, more significantly as the frequency increases. Common-mode noise on the power line is defined as the voltage measured equally between hot and safety ground, and neutral and safety ground. This noise can couple into audio/video signal paths through poorly-designed safety ground systems, equipment and cabling. Common-mode noise is capacitively coupled through the transformer while differential-mode noise is magnetically coupled through the transformer. Common-mode noise arising within a facility can be caused by many devices, including motors, lighting dimmers, etc. It can also be caused by high resistance ground connections. As the length of the circuit from the isolation transformer to the equipment increases, the chance for induced common-mode noise also increases. When a voltage is provided by a transformer or derived from a generator or double conversion online uninterruptible power supply (UPS), it is termed “separately derived” (NEC Article 250.30). High frequency common-mode noise can capacitively couple between the primary and the secondary windings of a transformer. A separately derived system power isolation transformer eliminates commonmode noise between neutral and safety ground because these are bonded together immediately after the transformer. The use of an electrostatic (Faraday) shield, which reduces the capacitive coupling between the primary and secondary windings, provides additional isolation at high frequencies. The shield is also very effective at suppressing fast rise time voltage spikes. Most AV installations benefit from a dedicated shielded isolation transformer with a single ground reference point. The transformer will be a buffer between the utility company and facility electrical system and the protected electronics systems such as AV equipment, control electronics, dimmers and data devices.
 
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Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
12,758
My old Mitsubishi HC1500 projector on HDMI from the DISH receiver. It will have HDMI and analog component HD feed inputs.
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Need to dress the cable a bit.PXL_20220128_044224423.jpg
PJ to screen Throw distance. Semi-dark room.PXL_20220128_044230290.jpgPXL_20220128_044210916.jpg
Needs some screen and video adjustments but not bad.PXL_20220128_045854542.jpgPXL_20220128_045820385.jpg
Basic direct HDMI cable connect video is OK (it's a good quality 30 foot cable but HDMI is finicky with long runs). Now I need to upgrade the old AV receiver to one that does at least 4 HDMI input switching with at least two HDMI outputs for the TV and PJ.
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
12,758
I wonder how much money you've been saving by doing all of this yourself, instead of hiring a "professional"
I couldn't afford to pay for my "professional" services for this type of project.
Learned a lot from one of the best about room design decades ago it seems now. Dennis Erskine does some really high end stuff now.
https://www.erskine-group.com/
The recording of video and sound is deeply entrenched in science and engineering in order to produce stunning experiences. It is not an effort to have magic wires, cool speakers, or the most expensive electronics.

The reproduction of those sound tracks and video is likewise an engineering exercise firmly rooted in science. It is not an interior design exercise; but, every element from sound isolation, acoustics, construction, interior finishes to kit must be designed and specified appropriate to the venue to honor the art.
With proper room design and audio source placement control even boom-box can sound good. Once some of the furniture is in I can start fixing some of the acoustical issues with corner traps, absorption, damping, etc ...

 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
12,758
Selected a Denon mid-range receiver.
https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/av-receivers/avr-x3700h

PXL_20220130_013225895.jpg
Lots of I/O with 7 HDMI input and three HDMI outputs. MM Phono input was a requirement.
PXL_20220130_001402662.jpgPXL_20220129_235905055.jpgPXL_20220130_000141841.jpg
Equipment pull-out rack.

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My HT speakers are still in storage so we're using the work shed specials and left-overs for testing until next week.

PXL_20220130_035004865.jpg
One of the best of the old HD DVD releases.

PXL_20220130_033514636.NIGHT.jpg
HD-DVD Army of Darkness video on the projector.
PXL_20220130_033437761.NIGHT.jpg
 
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killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
835
Selected a Denon mid-range receiver.
https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/av-receivers/avr-x3700h

View attachment 259148
Lots of I/O with 7 HDMI input and three HDMI outputs. MM Phono input was a requirement.
View attachment 259149View attachment 259150View attachment 259151
Equipment pull-out rack.

View attachment 259153
My HT speakers are still in storage so we're using the work shed specials and left-overs for testing until next week.

View attachment 259154
One of the best of the old HD DVD releases.

View attachment 259155
HD-DVD Army of Darkness video on the projector.
View attachment 259156
That receiver made my eyes hurt when I looked at the sticker, I would have to look away when I hit the complete order button.

I have to consider the sticker before my system design is in place, I’m currently working on a whole house system design right now. Not excluding a recording studio, I have to really put some effort into split systems to accomplish the final, so many other projects in my headspace doesn’t allow it. The problem for me is location of speakers and purpose, the outside patio, will have 2 hanging Cabs, inside sound re-inforcement throughout, then in my living room where my video server resides, this amp would be great but over kill. If I attempt to utilize the output capabilities of a single amp design could potentially be hazardous when an output channel has issues. Therefor, split system design will win over if that unit is too costly and time consuming to repair, and replacement becomes the best option.

My Garage project is nearing it’s sound insulation phase, the studio flooring cork or other, then wall covered in foam cones. Shielded 3 conductor Mic cables in isolated conduit for now, until I can financially fund a complete house electrical vamp. I will consider the isolation in the above cabinet design, nothing worse than fighting issues with 60 htz hum. The recording studio will need isolation and electrical tie downs, proper grounding etc. So my current objective is sub panel hopefully to accomplish temporary install for the studio, the question becomes an Isolation transformer before the amp? Would be reasonable but foolish when considering my end design, electrical vamp phase can become reality, so I consider locating a transformer from a device that has failed, recover it and use it as a temporary solution.

Salvage right now vs New equipment. The answer would be simple if I didn’t require 15k in concrete and outbuildings.

Got 10k right now but with Taxes around the corner, and cost of COBRA this year for the wirfe, will take a huge bite out of my projects budget.

kv
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
12,758
You really want power isolation on everything in the AV chain. The room has a normal 120AC utility power and transformer (surplus) isolated technical power sub-panel for all audio and video equipment. I have very low background noise with zero pops and ticks from the rest of the house AC hash from motors and appliances switching on/off.

The receiver was a local purchase from a AV B/M business that's been around since the 80's so support shouldn't be a issue.
 
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killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
835
You really want power isolation on everything in the AV chain. The room has a normal 120AC utility power and transformer (surplus) isolated technical power sub-panel for all audio and video equipment. I have very low background noise with zero pops and ticks from the rest of the house AC hash from motors and appliances switching on/off.
Your presenting on onboarding challenge for me, end design not limited by budgetary constraint.

This would be embedded power electronics such is a present issue I think you can answer, but I think worthy of a complete Thread, or maybe in the physics or power design?

Not sure, let me pose this question, no one in my current company or other, unless you can find an already designed Camera with my conceptual solution for an ongoing problem or bane I deal with on a daily basis solving problems for my Customers that should have been addressed long ago. It’s a Doorbell Camera, wifi only however, they have outdoor cameras designed to allow for PLC Controllers. Why I thought hasn’t anyone, I mean anyone found a solution to a simple camera for the doorbell to be hard wired? Is it because it’s not permissible to embed data, that powers the camera? the data is lost through the step down transformer?

My question is direct communication through the transformer might be lost untranslatable, or they just don’t because doesn’t follow small package design to warehouse neatly, I say no, it needs to have something to decode and encoded data com and translate it. I’m lost in this because I’m not a data com engineer or communications specialist, but I know you are the closest person to me right now with those skillsets.

kv

Edit: Forgive me if I didn’t frame the question well enough to be understood.

Edit:Edit: I purposely chose Onboarding just to screw with people reading my post lol *Translated, a phase of employment wherein neophytes learn (Transistional state) , to later be specifically trained in the company products, procedure, implementation. Throughput lol
 
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