Now you are starting to make some sense. You cannot separate the ethics from the engineering .

Definitely. I will be interested to see what your thoughts are on my previous post. I need to learn multi posting to keep all my posts together

 

Also if electronics is a luxury hobby, surely we should abolish it as its an unnecessary waste of resources and energy etc? in line with what we've discussed so far, that would seem to be the logical conclusion

 

Also if electronics is a luxury hobby, surely we should abolish it as its an unnecessary waste of resources and energy etc? in line with what we've discussed so far, that would seem to be the logical conclusion

Now there you go again. Who said electronics is a luxury hobby?
Even if there are some unnecessary aspects of electronics how can you translate that to abolishing all parts of it?

 

Now there you go again. Who said electronics is a luxury hobby?
Even if there are some unnecessary aspects of electronics how can you translate that to abolishing all parts of it?

why ignore everything I wrote except for that one thing which is really a side issue compared to the rest of what I wrote? I'll answer when you respond to most of what I wrote

 

It's a want. I like it. And it's not just a hobby. But yes, if I knew how to make a living doing something else I would do it.

The internet is a medium of communication , I think it's useful. I already gave up a lot of electronic gadgets. They are only keeping us busy, trying to make us forget what really matters. I try to limit I spend time with them to a minimum.

you asked "who said" and clearly it was stated here that its a want, not a need

 

A lot of people get by and are clueless about physics and science. Others want to learn it, while others need it for both survival and earning an income. Fact is, those who are not willing to learn are less prepared for new ideas.

Anytime someone starts talking about I just want something, and don't need it, I watch my wallet very carefully. Usually it is an agenda that has nothing to do with the subject at work.

 

It would be a very large project. Do you think it would be possible for a third world country to successfulyl complete such a task and what would the roadmap to completing such a project look like?

Would it be possible? Well America can't even do that anymore. That being said, I think that on a national level, where there's a will there's a way. If the leadership of the developing nation, or even just a credible person in that society, could convince its constituents (correctly or incorrectly - which I'll stop beating to death now) that the project would be a good thing for everybody and make everybody happier, then yes.
In India - yes, definitely. They already have mostly everything they need; most of which they got from us, when we decided we didn't need it anymore.
In China - Yes, I believe they're already there. However I'm not sure we should consider China a "developing" nation. I think they're as "developed" as they're going to get, socially speaking.
In Africa - probably not.
In North Korea & Iran - apparently to the extent required to produce long range nuclear weapons.
Pick any country, and the answer probably lies in the question "how badly do they, as a whole country, want it?"

I think the road map to such a development, would look as I've already described.
(step 1) It starts with unification of the people, by common desire or coercion, towards a common goal.
(step 2) Then organization. Some kind of leadership and strategic planning, (presumably but not necessarily) offered by the country's government.
(step 3) Then outside help. The budding country would need to bring in experts from other countries to learn the ropes.
(step 4) Materials & technology procurement. They would need to purchase all the manufacturing equipment, tools, supplies, etc. needed for manufacturing.
(step 5) locating and extracting local raw materials. Once the country's manufacturing sector was up and running, they would need to ween themselves off of foreign ore, silicon, etc. which would require development of the required mining industries & etc.

That problem with your initial question IMO is that it jumps straight to step 3 or 4. It totally fails to address whether or not there was a common desire among the people for the development in the first place. Granted, you did mention that the new democratically elected official was calling on diaspora to return, bringing new technologies, but I don not believe that's how it would play out. If it did play out that way, I doubt that it would be an effective method to industrialize a country. A failed plan in the making by a naive new democratically elected official. Although if he were democratically elected, it could be implied that he was elected because he had already gotten the people on board with the idea, but that's a stretch of an implication.

 

According to this article, the diaspora are already playing a massive role in Somalilands development and no one is saying its unwelcome:

http://somalilandpress.com/somalila...vital-role-fostering-development-region-32164

So certainly there are stable countries where this scenario is very real.

They already have resolved all of the political and social issues and there only real focus now is on nation building and development.

This is the situation I'm talking about.

Obviously Nations that still have other issues to resolve first like ethnic conflicts are no longer an engineering problem and so beyond my field of interest really, I can't claim to understand the many world cultures and political situations and don't feel it is my place to get involved. But those countries who are already ok on those fronts and would like some engineering solutions, this is really where I feel I come in.

so steps 1 and 2 are really beyond my remit and the remit of the discussion.

Steps 4 and 5 are really the ones Id like to focus on in more detail.

Which tools would they start with and what order would they build their capabilities. Which manufacturing sectors? Also what could individual private investors and engineers do as capitalism means a lot of nation building is done though private investors, you would only sit around waiting for the government to do everything in a communist state really, in a capitalist state, private businesses will not be started up by the government, the people will start them up and it will naturally contribute through jobs, services etc.

So what projects would they start with and how would it develop? nations are at different stages, so india is at a different place to uganda etc. with a road map you can find out where a particular nation is and then see what the next stages are. which industries capabilities, tools etc.

 

if you truly are an inventor, you should realize that there is no road map. If you want examples, just look at the history.

 

Like Haite and Earthquake,urgent need two years ago. Saw a conference on c-span

about Haite yesterday,the Ambassador, Committee of America's talking about twenty

year plan. $35,000.00 per house talking points,people still living in cardboard lean

too's. A T.V. station did what I did two years ago,I googled all the Island coast,

you be surprised at the do-gooders homes,airplanes,sailboats on beautiful beaches.

With google earth it hard to hide all the perks. They have good roads that go to the

the bad areas. The native population is denied access to the do-gooder area. The

same day of the earth quake, travelers enjoyed the beach on the other side of the

country behind a 60 foot fence. The fence is in place for tourist year round.

JUst a few things,google around the coast, beautiful land and waters,off limits.

 

The island of Hispanol is the home of two seperate countries ... Haiti and the Dominican Republic.

The Dominican Republic is certainly more modern than Haiti.

http://www.theglobalist.com/storyid.aspx?storyid=4776 has one view of the developement.

 

Is there a set model for developing as a nation and what would you do if your loyalties laid with a developing nation and you wanted to use your career to serve that nation? It seems to me that we are only really useful in developed nations where people can take our prototype designs and actually get them into production. Any information on this topic would be greatly appreciated, as it is of great interest to me

I think one needs to take account of the nations resources. Building infrastructure of any degree requires source funding, typically in natural resources. Failure to balance funding with expenditures results in burdensome debt loads that crash economies.

 

Failure to balance funding with expenditures results in burdensome debt loads that crash economies.

Some believe that balancing expenditures with funding is the principle to ensure your not in debt, or your debt load is within your means. Some, in this case, means common people who do it day to day.

Living outside your means, whether your a person or a government, in never a good option.

 

Living outside your means, whether your a person or a government, in never a good option.

Living outside your means as a person isn't a good idea, but as a government, apparently it is. You just keep borrowing more and more with no intent to repay, printing out more and more money, driving the value of currency down. This causes people's hamster wheels to speed up. you get more and more work out them for the same compensation.

 

Government borrows money from the future labor force. It runs a deficit with no intentions of repaying it. Inflation reduces the value of the amount owed. In the final analysis, both people who try to save money and all taxpayers end up with the financial burden. Banks, financiers and corporations become richer.

 

Government borrows money from the future labor force. It runs a deficit with no intentions of repaying it. Inflation reduces the value of the amount owed. In the final analysis, both people who try to save money and all taxpayers end up with the financial burden. Banks, financiers and corporations become richer.

Don't forget organized crime and the rest of the corrupt despots that come before the tax paying civil population. In the end, technology has no chance to provide when the bulk of the investment pads pockets through kickbacks, bribes, or defending your rule.

 

So with these issues raised in mind, what would the response to the initial question be for you guys, personally, what would each of you do in the hypothetical situation? Feel free to explore various scenarios in terms of government or private work, different industries, available resources, amount of startup investment available etc?

 

I think the best answer lies in the video in post #15.

 

I think the best answer lies in the video in post #15.

I concur with your assessment.

 

I guess the problem I have with the video is that lots of individuals working on their own projects will bring chaos and order never arises from chaos. I'm not convinced that this will bring about roads and medicine and agriculture etc just by helping individuals with their idea's. That's not to say he is doing a bad thing by assisting entrepreneurship because of course there will be some benefit from that, but I don't believe it will resolve society at larges issues (as in issues that can be resolved with engineering, so not including social, political issues etc).

I do think that going to a third world nation and starting a pharmaceutical business manufacturing all the cures the nation needs will mean no money leaks out of their economy to wealthy first world nations and if you train the locals how to work on the pharmaceuticals and eventually let the brightest and most capable take over the business so that it becomes indigenous and securing orders from neighboring countries to aid the economy from exports and to provide neighboring nations with medicine, the benefits will be enormous.

I'm sure there are projects that will benefit the nation as a whole although the point that you should constantly be listening to the locals that doesn't negate establishing projects that have a clear advantage to that nation if you run the idea by the locals and everyone is happy with it