How to wire One push button switch to open/close 2 motors with no limit switches

I have QTP Exhaust cutouts but need help to open&close the motors with one switch.

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Thread Starter

boogymani69

Joined Jan 13, 2018
7
I am new here and need some help with changing my present momentary toggle on/off switch to
a push button on/off switch to open and close my QTP cutouts. I've read one post here that discusses using
2 momentary switches that does that process. But that's controlled by you hearing loud exhaust or no cutout sound.
It takes 4.75 seconds to open or close the butterfly valves but motors do not have built in limit switches,
which means continuing constant power with the switch ON. I've attached QTP wiring Diagram with no switches.
Not much help..
Could anyone help me?
 

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crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
27,903
If you have no motor limit switches then one way to detect the end of the motor travel is to monitor the current and shut off the motor when the current increases as the motor stalls at the end of the travel.
It would require some electronics such as a latch and a simple current monitor circuit for each motor.
Does that sound like a option for you?
If so, it would be helpful to know the running and stall current for the motors.
 

tranzz4md

Joined Apr 10, 2015
310
I suspect that, like many, your valve actuators are designed to stay energized in the open position. The "stall current" is larger than the rotating current, but not particularly large, and the actuators windings and magnetic characteristics are designed to function properly in the "stalled" state.

The description of "a momentary, toggle, for on/off" indicates, to me, that it's a 3-position device, with a "return to center" mechanism. This would require a mechanism or circuitry to provide "latching". Seems strange.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
8,869
The remote control series of the cutouts do have a way of cutting motor power at each limit, automatically. Probably like what a power window uses.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
27,903
The description of "a momentary, toggle, for on/off" indicates, to me, that it's a 3-position device, with a "return to center" mechanism. This would require a mechanism or circuitry to provide "latching"
I interpret that as: you hold the switch until the motor reaches the desired position and then release the switch to the off state.
He wants to automate it so he doesn't have to hold the switch.
 

Thread Starter

boogymani69

Joined Jan 13, 2018
7
If you have no motor limit switches then one way to detect the end of the motor travel is to monitor the current and shut off the motor when the current increases as the motor stalls at the end of the travel.
It would require some electronics such as a latch and a simple current monitor circuit for each motor.
Does that sound like a option for you?
If so, it would be helpful to know the running and stall current for the motors.
You’re correct in both your responses. I want to use one pushbutton switch to be able to open my exhaust cutouts and depress it again to close them. As you stated the present toggle switch is a three position switch, forward opens the cutout butterfly valve, center no power, and aft closes the valve. The manufacturer says it takes 4.75 sec to open or close the valves. They sent you this cheap looking toggle switch that I don’t want to use in the show car I’m building. I problem is I’ve already welded it into the new exhaust system. I thought I could just change the switch to make it work but not knowing the motors had no built in limit switches. I hope some of this clears up my dilemma.
 

Thread Starter

boogymani69

Joined Jan 13, 2018
7
Crutschow I’ll work on getting the info on the motor travel as soon as I can and I certainly appreciate
Everyone’s input and advise. I’m not good with the electrical end of redesigning my muscle cars. Just let me what you need to do or get to help you.
 

tranzz4md

Joined Apr 10, 2015
310
It doesn't sound like a very secure arrangement. If that valve and actuator is deenergized at an end position and the heat vibrations and pressures move it from the end position, the valve is no longer fully closed or fully open. I would think it would need to be at least held in a fully closed position. To do that, the stall current must be known, must be limited, and must be maintained.

This of course means that we must come up with a circuit that will apply the correct current and polarity to reach a full closed position, limit that same current and polarity for as long as the closed position is desired, and then upon the deactuation of the switch; the current stopped, the polarity reversed and enough current and time allowed to open the valve, then the current stopped.

To me, that's not a particularly simple circuit, and we don't yet have any values other than 12vdc(nominal) and 4.75 sec.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
27,903
If that valve and actuator is deenergized at an end position and the heat vibrations and pressures move it from the end position, the valve is no longer fully closed or fully open.
The device apparently works properly with just a momentary application of voltage to the motors from the center-off switches, so I expect the motor and gear friction is sufficient to keep the valve in either position.
Thus there does not seem to be a need to have continuously applied power.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
8,869
Another problem with those is carbon/soot buildup in the flapper and it's shaft. Even the website mentions that it's a problem, they say to spray it with a penetrating oil every so often. So wouldn't that also complicate things because motor current would be higher when there was a buildup.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
8,869
Possibly.
I think using a timer as Dd suggested, is probably the easiest and best solution.
They must have something from the factory that does this. One of the higher priced versions includes a single button way of control but they don't say how they do it.

Kids today! When I was a teenager we had to unscrew a cap on the cutouts we put on cars. Now they have motorized ones so they don't need to get their hands dirty or burn their fingers. :)
 

Thread Starter

boogymani69

Joined Jan 13, 2018
7
They must have something from the factory that does this. One of the higher priced versions includes a single button way of control but they don't say how they do it.

Kids today! When I was a teenager we had to unscrew a cap on the cutouts we put on cars. Now they have motorized ones so they don't need to get their hands dirty or burn their fingers. :)
Shortbus
I’d love to be that young kid again because I’ve burned a few fingers in the 60’s and 70’s. I started building and restoring 60’s muscle cars 12 years ago but have always struggled with the electrical end. When I contacted the company techs they say they’re working on the possibilities of a single push system. We all know that will never happen! I’ve flown commercial Helicopters for 46 years and wish I was as knowledgeable in electronics like all of you. I really do appreciate everyone’s posts,but with family in town I won’t be able research everyone’s suggestions until this weekend..
Thanx again to you al’
 
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