Does anyone here know anything a lot about drones? I need a short course on the current state of affairs. This would be for personal use.

Question: Do all "decent" or middle/upper class drones need a smart phone and GPS to function? Seems like a lot of complexity just to fly around and take pictures. I get that live streaming would be difficult without the phone, but is there a stable, relatively easy to fly critter that records to an SD card?

Thanks.

ak

 

I think your question boils down to 2 questions: a) first person view or not and b) smart/semi-autonomous features. I think you will want both. Line of sight is very easy to lose. Photographing and piloting are conflicting activities.

I have a DJI that I use a tablet for instead of a phone, not that it's much difference other than a larger screen.

I believe most if not all drones record onto an SD card.

You definitely want GPS so it can find you when it does a "return home". Low battery auto-return has saved many drones. Also, it's very easy to lose line of sight. Video doesn't always work super well. I suppose if you are a fantastic pilot, will always know where your drone is and the state of your battery, you don't need that stuff. Look for "racing drones" if you want a manually controlled drone.

As for smarts, the newer drones all have lots of great photography assists

• orbit around a fixed point (keeping the camera pointed at the point)
• follow me
• execute a planned route
• and so on

This allows you to focus on photography instead of piloting. I have a Phantom 3 and can really see the advantages of some of the newer stuff in the 4 and the mavic. You can move up to the Inspire but I suspect that's out of your budget range.

Unless you are an awesome pilot, get the best obstacle avoidance you can afford. If nothing else, automatic "return home" needs it. Lots of tales out there of building/tree crashes during auto return.

 

Additional note - GPS also helps you to find the bird if it crashes out of sight since you have the last known location on your phone.

 

Does anyone here know anything a lot about drones? I need a short course on the current state of affairs. This would be for personal use.

Question: Do all "decent" or middle/upper class drones need a smart phone and GPS to function? Seems like a lot of complexity just to fly around and take pictures. I get that live streaming would be difficult without the phone, but is there a stable, relatively easy to fly critter that records to an SD card?

Thanks.

ak

Hi

I have a DJI Mavic Pro 4. It was my first drone. The DJI is extremely stable in winds of about 15 mph. It’s also fast and has 4K camera that records to onboard SD card.

I agree with Philba..You lose line of sight easy, so it’s important to learn how to fly without line of sight. You can fly without the controller by using just your iPhone but it’s not as responsive and had a shorter range.
The DJI has a 4 mile range..

Occasional Firmware updates are enforced to update “no fly zone” database..

It’s also best to get additional batteries. The charge for a DJI last about 25 minutes.

I have a friend that has a phantom but now wants a DJI. Says the phantom is too bulky.

eT

 

It’s also best to get additional batteries. The charge for a DJI last about 25 minutes.

I have a friend that has a phantom but now wants a DJI. Says the phantom is too bulky.

eT

Agree on the extra batteries. I have two and could use a 3rd. Also, get an inverter so you can charge in your car.

I believe you meant Mavic (not DJI, Phantom is a DJI, too). The advantage of the Mavic is you can take it as carry-on or checked luggage on an airplane. Even the smallest phantom case is pretty large (and my Nanuk case is monstrously big) and has to be checked so I tend not to travel with it.

 

Agree on the extra batteries. I have two and could use a 3rd. Also, get an inverter so you can charge in your car

Yup...I bought the assessory kit that comes with two batts and charging block that will charge up to three batts and the controller.
Glad I did!

Only thing I wish th Mavic had is rear sensors to detect obstructions...

eT

 

As long as we're talking drones. Be wary of setting up in a public place with people around. Inevitably you will get some grump that wants to tell you off for flying one. You need to focus on pre-flight, not dealing with an asshat who thinks you are scum and wants to be sure you know that. Also, avoid places with dogs - I had one go crazy and lunge at my phantom as I was taking off. Had to walk a ways off to land it safely.

Anyway, I usually "run and gun". Find an isolated spot, fast set up, fly, quick break down and scoot. Usually it goes fine but I don't want to tempt fate. People will come over if you linger after a flight. Usually they are just curious but you never know.

And, I always fly in legal locations.

 

Does anyone here know anything a lot about drones? I need a short course on the current state of affairs. This would be for personal use.

Question: Do all "decent" or middle/upper class drones need a smart phone and GPS to function? Seems like a lot of complexity just to fly around and take pictures. I get that live streaming would be difficult without the phone, but is there a stable, relatively easy to fly critter that records to an SD card?

Thanks.

ak

You can build your own much cheaper and get the features you want. The FPV (first person view) they refer to is a separate video signal coming back from the drone. It can either be viewed from FPV (virtual reality) goggles, or sent to a device to be viewed on the screen. Better quads use 5.8GHz for video and 2.4GHz for control. Most upper end drones use some sort of proprietary program ran on an apple or android device. If you want simple, build it yourself. If you want well developed program features, buy a ready to fly setup. If you want to learn how to fly, don't buy an automated rig that flys itself. Buy something cheap that won't make you cry when it crashes.If you want really high quality photos and videos right away, buy the most expensive one you can afford. Lots of options for a DIYer especially in electronics and camera options. Take a look at some of the youtube videos about how to build one. UAVfutures show how to build one for under $100. Bear in mind he forgot to let you know you also need a receiver for the drone, batteries, charger, and radio that you need to factor into the price as well. He builds a racing quad but the idea is very similar if you want a decent rig for photography. Also, compare prices at banggood or someplace like that to the price you pay for DJI repair parts and batteries. I have both kinds and each has it place. The video on a phone or tablet is VERY useful! Like previously stated, it is difficult to fly well and do photography at the same time. It is very easy to loose sight of a drone even when it is right in front of you when you take your eyes off it to take pictures or get distracted by other things. Being able to look at what the drone is looking at can help you find your way back home. Even if you can't see the drone, you can fly it towards yourself until you find it once again. That is where the GPS return to home feature of better drones is sometimes a lifesaver. You can also build your own and add that feature using a program called iNav. If you want to have fun, build a cheap one, learn to fly and then strap a decent camera to it and have even more fun.

 

Two large city parks about 1 mile away in different directions, each with multiple soccer fields. so lotsa room with no trees for practice.

Here's the deal - Santa got me a PowerEgg for Christmas. While I am an amateur at this, I've messed around with other people's drones so I get the basics. The problem is that I don't have a smart phone, and my (old, of course) Samsung Galaxy Tab doesn't have GPS. I just don't churn personal electronics. So it looks like I have to go through a complete tech overhaul just to get this thing off the ground, and I want someone who knows this stuff to tell me it is absolutely mandatory before I go down that road.

Side question - streaming. Post #8 appears to say that the video coming back from the drone is not on b/g/n wifi, but on some other carrier. This makes sense to me because I don't think ad hoc wifi would be reliable at that distance, but again, would like an expert opinion.

Also, I'm wide open to PowerEgg reviews...

ak

 

Yeah, building your own is certainly an option. I've dabbled in that route but find that even with good techniques, getting to very high reliability is a challenge. Drones, even simple ones, are complex machines. Any subsystem or interconnect failure during flight is generally catastrophic. It's up to you.

I think there would be huge satisfaction in building one that worked well. As flyingcow said, there are lots of sites and videos that can help you. I liken it to building a sophisticated piece of test equipment like an OScope - it's doable but is more about the journey than the destination.

 

Two large city parks about 1 mile away in different directions, each with multiple soccer fields. so lotsa room with no trees for practice.

Here's the deal - Santa got me a PowerEgg for Christmas. While I am an amateur at this, I've messed around with other people's drones so I get the basics. The problem is that I don't have a smart phone, and my (old, of course) Samsung Galaxy Tab doesn't have GPS. I just don't churn personal electronics. So it looks like I have to go through a complete tech overhaul just to get this thing off the ground, and I want someone who knows this stuff to tell me it is absolutely mandatory before I go down that road.

Side question - streaming. Post #8 appears to say that the video coming back from the drone is not on b/g/n wifi, but on some other carrier. This makes sense to me because I don't think ad hoc wifi would be reliable at that distance, but again, would like an expert opinion.

Also, I'm wide open to PowerEgg reviews...

ak

Yeah, DJIs birds don't use wifi but it's in the same spectrum so there is potential interference.

Can't help you with the poweregg other than what I can read which you likely already know. It looks fairly capable on the surface and has a number of the things I mentioned to make photography easier. It is good for DJI to have competition. On the FPV, I'd look for a used 7" tablet for it. Don't think they are that expensive. I use a 7" Samsung Tablet with my Phantom and it works quite well. Hate using my phone for it as the screen is just too small. I think a used iPad would work well too.

 

They fascinate me and while I have no experience with them my neighbor is all over them and always looking to get the latest and greatest. They are really pretty cool and rather than a smart phone he streams his data to a common tablet PC with the larger screen. I caught news story awhile back regarding the use of drones for bridge inspection here in Ohio. You may want to give this a read: Drone used in turnpike bridge inspection crashes into water. Apparently this drone had a major power failure and that was all it wrote. Sense Fly was giving ODOT an exhibition of how useful these drones could be as a sales pitch. "The $35,000 albris drone could not be retrieved from the water, Sader said". So apparently about $35,000 of high tech drone is a gonner, literally.

My wife retired as a manager of a local access TV station and still keeps in touch with her former co-workers. They recently bought a nice high end drone for sports coverage, stuff like Friday Night Football (High School) and with the drone went liability insurance coverage least the drone crash into something and do damage. Apparently everyone loves the thing. Maybe it's covered under homeowners policies?

Then we have our neighbors to the south in Kentucky: Judge dismisses charges for man who shot down drone. Some people apparently do not take kindly to drones.

I have given some thought to getting one. Overall from what I see they have actually come down in cost. My neighbor popped about $1,800 for his first one including extra batteries and a fast charger. I have no clue what he has invested in his current one but the thing is nice, really nice and has about a 3 mile range as well as all the nice features like finding its way home. You get into it make sure you post some videos and stuff.

Wish I could have been of some actual help.

Ron

 

Does anyone here know anything a lot about drones? I need a short course on the current state of affairs. This would be for personal use.

Question: Do all "decent" or middle/upper class drones need a smart phone and GPS to function? Seems like a lot of complexity just to fly around and take pictures. I get that live streaming would be difficult without the phone, but is there a stable, relatively easy to fly critter that records to an SD card?

Thanks.

ak

Others are talking about line of sight and flying without line of sight on the aircraft. You must always have line of sight of any “suas” small unmanned aerial system. Also if it is over 255 grams in now has to be registered via the federal government. In short you will do yourself a favor by joining the AMA. Yes the AMA is redicuously overpriced at $75 a year. However with that annual fee you get a monthly magazine with lots of information about the current affairs in the community along with equipment reviews. But the absolute best part of the membership is the insurance you get automatically as a member. They provide you with liability insurance free of charge. Also they have theft coverage for you as well, that is included with the membership too.

 

Two large city parks about 1 mile away in different directions, each with multiple soccer fields. so lotsa room with no trees for practice.

Here's the deal - Santa got me a PowerEgg for Christmas. While I am an amateur at this, I've messed around with other people's drones so I get the basics. The problem is that I don't have a smart phone, and my (old, of course) Samsung Galaxy Tab doesn't have GPS. I just don't churn personal electronics. So it looks like I have to go through a complete tech overhaul just to get this thing off the ground, and I want someone who knows this stuff to tell me it is absolutely mandatory before I go down that road.

Side question - streaming. Post #8 appears to say that the video coming back from the drone is not on b/g/n wifi, but on some other carrier. This makes sense to me because I don't think ad hoc wifi would be reliable at that distance, but again, would like an expert opinion.

Also, I'm wide open to PowerEgg reviews...

ak

Hi Analogkid,
This all might be a bit confusing. We all speak of 2.4GHz. It is a band of radio spectrum that many devices share according to FCC rules without requiring a license such as a ham radio ticket. The band includes wifi but also many other frequencies such as microwave ovens. Some cheap drones are stated as wifi, most use the exact frequency of the one in your home. 5.8GHz is also a similar frequency band not requiring a license to operate if following FCC rules. With DJI, they modify the signal to get more distance from it. I haven't looked into it, but you wouldn't be able to see it with your wifi equipment.
Part of your concern is GPS in a tablet. I don't own an egg and have never seen one. I did look at the website and best I can tell, the GPS is part of the drone as is with most. The drone will send it's position to your device. Your concern when buying a device will center around the operating system compatibility and usually something not conveyed on a website is the amount of memory required to operate the app with complete functionality. With the new DJI app, I was advised to buy a tablet with at least 2G of memory. I bought a cheap one first with 1G and it would not run the app. Another concern you should consider is the processor. I tried a Galaxy 7JV phone less than a month old. It functioned correctly, then when the drone was a couple of hundred yards away, the phone overheated from excessive processor function shutting the phone down. Now talk about excitement for a new pilot! So, keep all that in mind when thinking about saving a few bucks. It could cost hundreds if your drone flys away.
Back to wifi again. Lots of free apps out there to use an old android device to view the video signal and even some free control apps. With the exception of proprietary app like from DJI, you can use regular wifi as with a camera or tablet. I can't tell you which,if any of those will work for your drone. Not that you want to, but just one more option. Things are pretty simple but as you get more involved they get complicated quickly. If so inclined, you can even buy send/ receive modules that are high power and on ham frequencies that require a ham ticket to operate. I have a stand alone receiver that I can plug into any usb phone so someone else can watch along without me having to share my screen.

 

Yeah, DJIs birds don't use wifi but it's in the same spectrum so there is potential interference.

Not sure what you mean here Philba. My MAVIC can be controlled using WiFi from my iPhone without the DJI remote controller. It has a switch on its side to flip between the two modes.

Can't help you with the poweregg other than what I can read which you likely already know. It looks fairly capable on the surface and has a number of the things I mentioned to make photography easier. It is good for DJI to have competition. On the FPV, I'd look for a used 7" tablet for it. Don't think they are that expensive. I use a 7" Samsung Tablet with my Phantom and it works quite well. Hate using my phone for it as the screen is just too small. I think a used iPad would work well too.

I'm trying to figure out a way to display the iPhone image simulaneously on a larger screen (like my 50" plasma in my living room) while piloting the aircraft. I'm wondering if Miracast will work?

 

Two large city parks about 1 mile away in different directions, each with multiple soccer fields. so lotsa room with no trees for practice.

Here's the deal - Santa got me a PowerEgg for Christmas. While I am an amateur at this, I've messed around with other people's drones so I get the basics. The problem is that I don't have a smart phone, and my (old, of course) Samsung Galaxy Tab doesn't have GPS. I just don't churn personal electronics. So it looks like I have to go through a complete tech overhaul just to get this thing off the ground, and I want someone who knows this stuff to tell me it is absolutely mandatory before I go down that road.

Yes...the device needs GPS (I think by law to honor "no fly" zones). Besides, alot of cool functionality if it has GPS.

Side question - streaming. Post #8 appears to say that the video coming back from the drone is not on b/g/n wifi, but on some other carrier. This makes sense to me because I don't think ad hoc wifi would be reliable at that distance, but again, would like an expert opinion.

Also, I'm wide open to PowerEgg reviews...

ak

Mine streams 1080p video to the smart phone with or without the remote controller using WiFi.

 

Mine streams 1080p video to the smart phone with or without the remote controller using WiFi.

The Egg has a range of 3 miles from the controller. I can't see wifi reaching that far between two patch antennas.

ak

 

The Egg has a range of 3 miles from the controller. I can't see wifi reaching that far between two patch antennas.

ak

Yes..I already said the range is much shorter with WiFi (about 100 ft radius). The controls are less responsive too.

 

I did not know the Mavic can alternatively use Wifi. Seems likes a wasteful cost given the drawbacks.

The interference is from Wifi users sharing the same spectrum.

 

They fascinate me and while I have no experience with them my neighbor is all over them and always looking to get the latest and greatest. They are really pretty cool and rather than a smart phone he streams his data to a common tablet PC with the larger screen. I caught news story awhile back regarding the use of drones for bridge inspection here in Ohio. You may want to give this a read: Drone used in turnpike bridge inspection crashes into water. Apparently this drone had a major power failure and that was all it wrote. Sense Fly was giving ODOT an exhibition of how useful these drones could be as a sales pitch. "The $35,000 albris drone could not be retrieved from the water, Sader said". So apparently about $35,000 of high tech drone is a gonner, literally.

My wife retired as a manager of a local access TV station and still keeps in touch with her former co-workers. They recently bought a nice high end drone for sports coverage, stuff like Friday Night Football (High School) and with the drone went liability insurance coverage least the drone crash into something and do damage. Apparently everyone loves the thing. Maybe it's covered under homeowners policies?

Then we have our neighbors to the south in Kentucky: Judge dismisses charges for man who shot down drone. Some people apparently do not take kindly to drones.

I have given some thought to getting one. Overall from what I see they have actually come down in cost. My neighbor popped about $1,800 for his first one including extra batteries and a fast charger. I have no clue what he has invested in his current one but the thing is nice, really nice and has about a 3 mile range as well as all the nice features like finding its way home. You get into it make sure you post some videos and stuff.

Wish I could have been of some actual help.

Ron

Lots of good uses for drones. Lots of abuses, too.

Guy that shot the drone down should have been convicted - discharging a weapon into the air is just plain stupid. Shows the typical anti-drone bias out there. That's why I run-n-gun as I posted earlier. Avoid people when flying.

Don't go cheap on a drone. When I was researching it, the only consumer level drones that didn't have serious deficiencies were from DJI. Maybe things have changed but be sure to compare the features against the DJI Mavic or Phantom 4 which are pretty much the consumer level gold standard. Also, find user groups for the drones you are considering. You will learn a lot. Range, flight time, collision avoidance, camera quality (a huge one), compatibility with phone/tablets, software/apps. Make sure they are all up to par.

A note on camera quality. Don't just go by resolution. Look at the actual video and still shot quality. It doesn't make sense to save a couple hundred dollars and get heavily artifacted video. There are several that look good on paper but when you look at the video it's highly disappointing. Also, don't make the mistake that a lot of people have made by thinking you can just tack on a point and shoot camera. Weight/payload is pretty carefully spec'd and adding even a small amount will significantly affect the flight characteristics (flight time, responsiveness, even the ability to fly). Plus you will need to have a system to control the camera.