# Heat pump, entropy, and cheap energy

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#### Motanache

Joined Mar 2, 2015
481
Air conditioning removes heat from the room and eliminate it outside.

If we change the two radiators between them? It would warm the room by heating the outside.

Eg. Air-Air Heat Pump:
Energy consumption 1500Wh and heat 4000Wh.
A 99% efficiency heater would have required 4KW for the same heat that can be achieved with 1.5KW heat pump.

"An Air Source Heat Pump (ASHP) will typically produce around 3kW thermal energy for every 1kW of electrical energy consumed, giving an effective “efficiency” of 300%."
from:
https://help.leonardo-energy.org/hc/en-us/articles/203047881-How-efficient-is-a-heat-pump

(A sentence mentioning over unity power conversion was removed by a moderator because it violates the User Agreement. Analysis of the possible efficiency of the arrangement described will probably be permitted).
.........

Steam turbines can have a maximum efficiency of 70%.
Otto and diesel engine maximum 30-35% efficient.

Stirling engine 10% efficient.
5% efficient peltier, thermocouple.

Theoretically, could such a system work without power supply and warming a room by extracting heat from outside and cooling the uotside?

Or does it contradict the principle of entropy?

How can we use this heat surplus for a thermal engine?
The Carnot cycle has a maximum efficiency of 70%, so it does not work

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#### KeithWalker

Joined Jul 10, 2017
526
Air conditioning removes heat from the room and eliminate it outside.

If we change the two radiators between them? It would warm the room by heating the outside.

Eg. Air-Air Heat Pump:
Energy consumption 1500Wh and heat 4000Wh.
A 99% efficiency heater would have required 4KW for the same heat that can be achieved with 1.5KW heat pump.

"An Air Source Heat Pump (ASHP) will typically produce around 3kW thermal energy for every 1kW of electrical energy consumed, giving an effective “efficiency” of 300%."
from:
https://help.leonardo-energy.org/hc/en-us/articles/203047881-How-efficient-is-a-heat-pump-

So..... If we can convert heat to electricity or move with more than 65% efficiency, that this heat pomp could could work with no power supply. .........

Steam turbines can have a maximum efficiency of 70%.
Otto and diesel engine maximum 30-35% efficient.

Stirling engine 10% efficient.
5% efficient peltier, thermocouple.

Theoretically, could such a system work without power supply and warming a room by extracting heat from outside and cooling the uotside?

Or does it contradict the principle of entropy?

How can we use this heat surplus for a thermal engine?
The Carnot cycle has a maximum efficiency of 70%, so it does not work
This does not contradict the principle of entropy. The heat pump is not generating the heat. It is simply transferring it from one location to another. It can work without a power source. Geothermal heating units use convection to transfer the heat.

#### Motanache

Joined Mar 2, 2015
481
This does not contradict the principle of entropy.
Until now I warmed outside with ours cars.......

It would be very good if we could cooled outside to obtain mechanical work.

But entropy, disorder, that amount of energy that can no longer be transformed into mechanical work can only increase.

#### wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
16,128
Theoretically, could such a system work without power supply and warming a room by extracting heat from outside and cooling the uotside?
No, it takes energy to move BTUs "uphill", from the cooler outdoors into our warmer homes. Heat pumps are a good deal, because as you've noted the heat moved is more than the energy that was expended to transport that heat, which also ends up in the house.

Now there is a ∆T between our warm indoors and the cold outdoors. Shaft work energy could indeed be extracted from that ∆T. But not nearly so much shaft work could be recovered as was required to establish that ∆T in the first place. Not theoretically, and definitely not practically.

#### Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
21,914
Overunity is not allowed on AAC which is perpetual motion or something for nothing. A hard rule of thermodynamics is it will always takes energy to extract energy Geothermal has such an excess of energy for example it is worth the effort, so does solar.

Because this thread crosses over into Over unity I am closing this thread per our TOS and Code of Conduct.

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