You do know that the lock"solenoid" I linked really is a motor operating a gear rack don't you. And it will take way less than a window opener motor.

I know that some of them are now. The only one I ever had to deal with was an actual solenoid, two coils, lock and unlock, in a late sixties Plymouth. The motor and gear are probably a lot cheaper and much better at the task, no doubt. And certainly they will draw less current than the window motor and cam, and possibly drive hard enough to do the job. But a cam cocking a spring over a whole rotation can store up a whole lot more energy to launch the ball. So the challenge will be to know how much force for what distance at what speed is required. Only three variables in the one equation. Should not be too bad.

 

It's going to require a lot of current. Something like an SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) battery is probably a good start.

Like a car battery?

I know that some of them are now. The only one I ever had to deal with was an actual solenoid, two coils, lock and unlock, in a late sixties Plymouth. The motor and gear are probably a lot cheaper and much better at the task, no doubt. And certainly they will draw less current than the window motor and cam, and possibly drive hard enough to do the job. But a cam cocking a spring over a whole rotation can store up a whole lot more energy to launch the ball. So the challenge will be to know how much force for what distance at what speed is required. Only three variables in the one equation. Should not be too bad.

How would I figure out that equation? ball is in Dollar Tree I think is posted above; I'd like it to go 20 - 30 feet

How far, and how fast, does this hard-Rubber-Ball have to be projected ?

Another way of doing this is to purchase a Spool of Wire, maybe ~18-Gauge ?,
and use the plastic spool as a Solenoid.
An Iron, or Steel, bar, ( or any other Ferrous-Metal You can find ),
will generate a tremendous amount of force when placed inside the Spool,
and a High-Voltage-Spike is applied to the entire Spool of Wire.

There are, of course, various sizes of Spools of Wire,
the size You pick, and the Gauge, and length of Wire on the Spool,
will determine the maximum Power potential,
and the Voltage-level required to achieve the desired Power.

You never have to remove the Wire from the Spool,
it's already in the form of an excellent, powerful, Solenoid-Coil.

If you should decide to go this route, virtually anyone in these Forums
can help You with designing a Capacitor-Discharge Circuit that will
blast that Rubber-Ball over ~50-feet through the Air.
.
.
.

Apologies I did not see all these additions to the thread. My email was not notifying me.
I was looking for it to go 20 ft min and 30 ft at a quick rate would be ideal. I did not get into the design of the launching the ball into the air yet but that is coming so any input on that is great as well. TY

 

Like a car battery?

No. While a car battery is lead acid chemistry it is not designed to be used to power things, it's designed to produce a lot of current for short time to crank an engine. If you use it to power relatively small loads for long periods it will destroy the battery.

Something like this one.

 

A simple lever with a spring and a simple guide for the ball will allow experimenting to see how much force it will take to send the ball the desired distance over whatever surface it is going to be rolling over. The spring can be some rubber bands. So the experimental setup can be very simple and really cheap. Launching the ball into the air will require adding a small ramp to the path that the lever launches the ball over. Again, simple and cheap. An added advantage is that using a motor cock the spring will deliver the same launch speed as the battery charge runs down, it will only take a bit longer. A solenoid will have less power as the battery runs down. In addition, a solenoid will require a higher current switch.

 

No. While a car battery is lead acid chemistry it is not designed to be used to power things, it's designed to produce a lot of current for short time to crank an engine. If you use it to power relatively small loads for long periods it will destroy the battery.

Something like this one.

The car battery in my old Dodge van would power the CB radio for a month without any problem.

 

The car battery in my old Dodge van would power the CB radio for a month without any problem.

If he can find an old Dodge van battery he might be alright.

 

No. While a car battery is lead acid chemistry it is not designed to be used to power things, it's designed to produce a lot of current for short time to crank an engine. If you use it to power relatively small loads for long periods it will destroy the battery.

Something like this one.

I can order that. I was told that there are "inexpensive" power sources where you can dial in the amount of power. Do you know of any that would help with all of the applications suggested here? TY

 

I can order that. I was told that there are "inexpensive" power sources where you can dial in the amount of power. Do you know of any that would help with all of the applications suggested here? TY

A variable bench supply like this could be used to power things and to charge the battery. It can provide constant voltage or constant current. This is among the cheapest I would consider, a little more money can get you more.

 

TY I appreciate keeping the budget down but what "little more" model be? And what would it do more for me. TY

 

TY I appreciate keeping the budget down but what "little more" model be? And what would it do more for me. TY

This one, for example, is 10A which is considerably more power.

 

Ok great TY

 

Getting back to the application question, how frequently will this device need to return a ball? The duty cycle matters a bit. And a power window motor from a scrap yard will be easier to control that attempting to control a pulse to a solenoid, which can overheat if it does not switch off quickly enough. In addition, really not much complicated assembly would be needed to use a motor with the gear reduction already part of the package. And it would draw zero standby power.

 

Getting back to the application question, how frequently will this device need to return a ball? The duty cycle matters a bit. And a power window motor from a scrap yard will be easier to control that attempting to control a pulse to a solenoid, which can overheat if it does not switch off quickly enough. In addition, really not much complicated assembly would be needed to use a motor with the gear reduction already part of the package. And it would draw zero standby power.

I'd say it will take the dog a minimum of 15 seconds on the best time to stop the ball and put it back in place to be sent again

 

If it is indeed for a dog recreation system, definitely the motor cocked spring launch mechanism will be the best choice because it will give the dog sounds to let them know it will be doing someting. Dogs tend to like that.

 

If it is indeed for a dog recreation system, definitely the motor cocked spring launch mechanism will be the best choice because it will give the dog sounds to let them know it will be doing someting. Dogs tend to like that.

Forgive me for asking a simple question, What does a motor cocked spring launch look like and what parts do I need?

 

OK, I had presumed that it was obvious. And unfortunately I have no means of sending a sketch.
The first part has a lever with a pivot at one end and an extension spring to pull it in one direction. So it would be pulled back and when released it would push the ball, which was resting against it, in the direction that the ball was intended to go. Sort of like batting a baseball, except pivoted on the end where a batter would be holding it, and a lot smaller.. The motor part has an adequate gear reduction scheme so that the cam can make one full revolution in about 15 seconds. The cam would be like a one-turn spiral so that it could move a linkage to pull the lever back, stretching the spring, and as the rotation completes the step in the spiral allows the lever to rapidly move back to the initial position with the spring force.
Probably not an adequate description, but really it is a common mechanism.

 

OK, I had presumed that it was obvious. And unfortunately I have no means of sending a sketch.
The first part has a lever with a pivot at one end and an extension spring to pull it in one direction. So it would be pulled back and when released it would push the ball, which was resting against it, in the direction that the ball was intended to go. Sort of like batting a baseball, except pivoted on the end where a batter would be holding it, and a lot smaller.. The motor part has an adequate gear reduction scheme so that the cam can make one full revolution in about 15 seconds. The cam would be like a one-turn spiral so that it could move a linkage to pull the lever back, stretching the spring, and as the rotation completes the step in the spiral allows the lever to rapidly move back to the initial position with the spring force.
Probably not an adequate description, but really it is a common mechanism.

I think you can attach files here or link to a place that has a similar item like website or photos. I am picturing a pinball flipper?
These are from the Golf ball return I am attempting to convert. TY so much for your time

https://photos.app.goo.gl/K97cRKyr9oinDGMe8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/txaTLV6MYbLNhNY99

 

Sort of like a pinball flipper, but with a spring to push the lever launching the ball, and a motor and a cam to pull it back and then let it go. The advantage being that the launch can be the same and not depend on the voltage to the solenoid being the same every time.

 

The mechanism @MisterBill2 is talking about is based on a snail cam.



More here: snail1.htm (including animations)

 

Yaakov TY for the diagrams!
Yaakov and Mr. Bill 2 ( have to laugh as my dog has destroyed 2 Mr. Bill toys in the last few months !
I hope this ball return will keep her busy also when I am working

From the animations to get the ball to be hit hard enough to send it 20 - 30 ft on carpet it seems like it would have to be a hard hit and the diagram appears that the pushing the rod forward to strike the ball is slower than the drop off?

As for the golf ball return I am using. The video shows when the ball hits the little pin at the back of the cup it activates the selenoid to shoot the rod forward and hit the "golf" ball I tried to cut the plastic out for the larger ball but it appears i wil have to remove the solenoid from the plastic and screw it onto wood to see if it is strong enough to send the bigger rubber ball 20 - 230 ft. if not, I need to find a more powerful solenoid.

The "flipper idea" like in pinball may send the ball off center which I will have to account for. But whatever will make it work is fine by me. Maybe after this one I will explore the outside version shooting it up in the air.

Any links to parts definitley helps and had sketch.

TY