Fuzzy Logic

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
27,530
I can pprogram in ladder logic, done a fair amount of that. AND 20 years ago I was very good using TBOS to program GM automotive production line testers. also basic in the years before that. But like anything else, when you stop using it you get out of practice.
 

Thread Starter

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
30,663
Ladder logic is just a form of boolean I have had to program many makes over the years, they all have thier own different idiosyncrasies. but that does not help me here!!
 
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MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
27,530
Consider that if any form of computer programming were simple enough for anybody to use, programmers would be much less in demand. And the computers that would be able to interpret plain language would be several orders of magnitude larger, and burn a lot more power into heat.
So the various languages are what we have that can communicate with the logic built into the different operating systems.
So there is a serious consideration, which is that if "computers" are ever able to understand "normal human language AND THINKING", we will be in danger of them taking over, like in the sci-fi movies.
I believe that would be most unfortunate!!!
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
6,300
Consider that if any form of computer programming were simple enough for anybody to use, programmers would be much less in demand.
More broadly, this is "demand-side" vs. "supply-side" economics.

In reality, increasing the supply of valuable resources tends to increase demand for those same resources over the long term.

Think about it: there is more demand for compute power today than there was fifty years ago, even though the supply has increased dramatically since then.
 
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MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
27,530
Certainly the applications for computer use have been constantly increasing in both number and capabilities. So a big part of the increase is directly caused by the increase in capabilities. It is a version of the positive feedback loop, as I see it. It is like working in a wise small company: DEmonstrating more capability leads to gaining more responsibility. Atleast that has been some of my experience. Larger organizations seem to not notice nearly as much, because of all the layers of management.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
6,300
More broadly, this is "demand-side" vs. "supply-side" economics.

In reality, increasing the supply of valuable resources tends to increase demand for those same resources over the long term.

Think about it: there is more demand for compute power today than there was fifty years ago, even though the supply has increased dramatically since then.
I realized I didn't finish the thought, and my post reads almost like a non sequitur.

Here's the conclusion:

If I could hire a programmer the same way I hire a kid to mow my lawn or wash my car, there'd be a lot more programming to be done in the world.
 

Thread Starter

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
30,663
I realized I didn't finish the thought, and my post reads almost like a non sequitur.

Here's the conclusion:

If I could hire a programmer the same way I hire a kid to mow my lawn or wash my car, there'd be a lot more programming to be done in the world.
I was just talking to a friend of the family that works for a Co. that employs a very large team of programmers.
He informed me they recently laid off 20% of the staff due to AI taking over in some areas !!.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
6,300
I was just talking to a friend of the family that works for a Co. that employs a very large team of programmers.
He informed me they recently laid off 20% of the staff due to AI taking over in some areas !!.
According to @nsaspook, your personal anecdotal experience is a fiction.

I'm more inclined to think, in general, that your experience is accurate, and will only "get worse" (if you think this is a bad thing).

Advances in technology invariably disrupt the status quo. For those who rely on the status quo for survival (i.e. buggy whip makers), their lives will be undoubtedly be made harder.

On the other hand, such advances also tend to improve life in general for most everyone, over the long term.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
6,300
It's funny: I've generally had a very high opinion of Linux Kernel programmers -- mostly because their efforts have greatly improved my computing experience, as opposed to say, Windows Kernel programmers.

But now they have AI which is finding bugs in the Kernel that have existed for years, just waiting for zero-day exploits.

The acclaim with which I've held these programmers has diminished somewhat. But I think this new AI capability will make them better, including Linus Torvolds, who's life has become much harder lately.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,328
According to @nsaspook, your personal anecdotal experience is a fiction.

I'm more inclined to think, in general, that your experience is accurate, and will only "get worse" (if you think this is a bad thing).

Advances in technology invariably disrupt the status quo. For those who rely on the status quo for survival (i.e. buggy whip makers), their lives will be undoubtedly be made harder.

On the other hand, such advances also tend to improve life in general for most everyone, over the long term.
Don't speak for me please.

It's not fiction that people are being laid-off for a variety of reasons with AI being the current 'story' of why. IMO, a lot of it was people were over-hired due to predictions and now things are being right-sized with the current reality.

The fiction is that LLM's will replace people that programmer instead of code.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,328
It's funny: I've generally had a very high opinion of Linux Kernel programmers -- mostly because their efforts have greatly improved my computing experience, as opposed to say, Windows Kernel programmers.

But now they have AI which is finding bugs in the Kernel that have existed for years, just waiting for zero-day exploits.

The acclaim with which I've held these programmers has diminished somewhat. But I think this new AI capability will make them better, including Linus Torvolds, who's life has become much harder lately.
When they find actual bugs that's great but the amount of redundant reports is making it hard to sort the 'good, the bad and the ugly' in the correct bins for action. Linus and the crews can handle it once good procedures are in place to filter out the junk.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
6,300
When they find actual bugs that's great but the amount of redundant reports is making it hard to sort the 'good, the bad and the ugly' in the correct bins for action. Linus and the crews can handle it once good procedures are in place to filter out the junk.
Yes. Improving life -- in general -- for all of us.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
6,300
By the way, Google Phone, after the latest update, is now screening my calls for spam and phishing. Considering that I've been receiving 5 or more "business loan" calls every single day, each from a different phone number, for the last 2 years, I'm ecstatic that this is a job I no longer have to do.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart, AI.
 
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